BOTT 2013 Quote

[triumphant1]

A gross misrepresentation of the scripture that has become popular again recently. Bro. Lee S has revived this same message recently. Let us be clear, you can make any scripture say what you want it to say by removing the context and imposing your own determinations as to what the subject matter is concerning "The truth."

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:14, while talking about "the truth" that "He called them by his GOSPEL." Paul made it very clear that the gospel he preached was a 4-part message--Christ died, was buried, rose again, and was seen. Meaning, the good news is what Jesus did and the indisputable evidence that he was in fact the risen messiah. The truth of the gospel in Paul's estimation was all about what Christ fulfilled and not about what we do to fulfill it.

Now back to the subject at hand. The verses concerning strong delusion have NOTHING to do with Acts 2:38 or the letting go of man concocted standards to earn God's favor, holiness, and salvation.

Read the chapter. He is talking about the end when the the antichrist is revealed. The ones receiving strong delusion are those who reject the message of Christ and worship the antichrist as the messiah. The passage is about eschatology--the end time. It is clear that Paul thought the man of lawlessness would be revealed in his lifetime and was expounding on the need to stand strong in the doctrine of Jesus Christ being the one and only Messiah.

He had already established in the first Chapter that God would punish and shut out those who did not KNOW GOD and OBEY THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. Again, Paul made it clear what the gospel was in 1 Corinthians 15:1-7:

1 Corinthians 15:1–7 (NIV84) — 1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,

So, those who are turned over to a spirit of delusion are those who have rejected the gospel of Christ being the appointed and proven Messiah (as preached by Paul) and are worshipping the Antichrist as the messiah and believing he is the one by buying into his lies and counterfeit miracles.

I simply do not understand why the so called bible scholars have no clue concerning CONTEXT!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by triumphant1

It is clear that Paul thought the man of lawlessness would be revealed in his lifetime and was expounding on the need to stand strong in the doctrine of Jesus Christ being the one and only Messiah.

I cringe each time I read or hear this statement (especially so if it be the one making it claims to be an adherent of Oneness Apostolic Pentecostalism), for it evidences an ignorance of Paul's understanding of the "righteousness" of God (that is, the equality of His justice in administrating judgment).

To this I must ask, Where in the Bible is it written that God would grant unto the Gentile inhabitants of the earth, a lesser period of time to learn about Him and be saved than He extended to the Israelites? Seeing that God contended with rebellious Israel for more than 2,000 years while "wooing" them to Himself, would it not be utterly "unrighteous" of Him to extend a lesser amount of time to the rebellious Gentiles as well?

How could Paul speak to the elders of the Ephesian church concerning his impending death, as well as the saints of the Philippian Church, and yet hold to or proclaim that he believed the man of lawlessness would be revealed during his lifetime? Such would evidence double mindedness, and that Paul certainly was not! Well, he couldn't and he didn't, for he knew that a period equal to that time which God had extended to Israel to repent must also come to pass before the "son of perdition" would become manifest.

Not intending to "hi-jack" this thread, but this is a matter of grievous concern to me, and I simply felt the need to express it.

[canam]

DB is meddling

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Lafon

I cringe each time I read or hear this statement (especially so if it be the one making it claims to be an adherent of Oneness Apostolic Pentecostalism), for it evidences an ignorance of Paul's understanding of the "righteousness" of God (that is, the equality of His justice in administrating judgment).

To this I must ask, Where in the Bible is it written that God would grant unto the Gentile inhabitants of the earth, a lesser period of time to learn about Him and be saved than He extended to the Israelites? Seeing that God contended with rebellious Israel for more than 2,000 years while "wooing" them to Himself, would it not be utterly "unrighteous" of Him to extend a lesser amount of time to the rebellious Gentiles as well?

How could Paul speak to the elders of the Ephesian church concerning his impending death, as well as the saints of the Philippian Church, and yet hold to or proclaim that he believed the man of lawlessness would be revealed during his lifetime? Such would evidence double mindedness, and that Paul certainly was not! Well, he couldn't and he didn't, for he knew that a period equal to that time which God had extended to Israel to repent must also come to pass before the "son of perdition" would become manifest.

Not intending to "hi-jack" this thread, but this is a matter of grievous concern to me, and I simply felt the need to express it.

I do not disagree. In my haste I said, "In his Lifetime" and left it as meaning he thought he would see the second coming before his death. I do believe that Paul felt the second coming of Christ and the revealing of the antichrist was eminent in the sense that He felt the urgency of it in his lifetime. That is what I meant. (That he felt the urgency of the second coming in his lifetime)

[Coady]

Ezekiel 14:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

[houston]

I also believe a delusion. Rather that than...

[scotty]

Originally Posted by canam

DB is meddling

Yep. Stirring a pot thats not his to stir.


Seriously?? Going to "assume" what a preacher says when you obviously have no clue what context it is in, nor have you heard the rest of the messege. ??

Thats called ignorance.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by scotty

Yep. Stirring a pot thats not his to stir.


Seriously?? Going to "assume" what a preacher says when you obviously have no clue what context it is in, nor have you heard the rest of the messege. ??

Thats called ignorance.

The quote was tweeted from those attended BOTT. I'm not sure context would change it much.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by scotty

Yep. Stirring a pot thats not his to stir.


Seriously?? Going to "assume" what a preacher says when you obviously have no clue what context it is in, nor have you heard the rest of the messege. ??

Thats called ignorance.

I listened to the entire LS sermon in this subject last month. He preached it at CLC on a Sunday Morning just a fews weeks ago.

This was also quoted recently on Facebook by a well known female speaker/pastor's wife and stirred quite a debate on her page. My response is entirely based on what I am 100% sure is being propagated recently in the UPC concerning this verse from 2 Thessalonians 2.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Ferd

You sure about that? Go back and read the story of Moses and Pharoh. Read the NT where the bible talks about people being turned over to a reprobate mind.

..2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV)
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
...

Originally Posted by Ferd

It starts in the heart of a man who will stand in opposition to God. Then God determining that the individual will not turn from his rebellion turns him over to distruction.


It is a fearful thing to watch. I have seen it. It is heart breaking. It us utterly devistating in its result.