When You Die...

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Well then, Dordt, you are just wiser than Solomon, I guess.

If you don't know where you are going, you have a problem.
Christ went to the Cross that I might have eternal life.
He paid the price.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Well, it's not what Jesus said.
A born again Christian KNOWS where he goes when he dies.

You might go ahead and post "what Jesus said." You will discover that you know no better after reading it than you did before, essentially. And that both are true. Say 'heaven,' and I will say that your 'heaven' will pass away...then what? Scripture does not tell us we are going to heaven, anyway; and neither does Christ. So, where are you going, D? Or rather, where are the 'born-again Christians' going? Hmm?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

If you don't know where you are going, you have a problem.
Christ went to the Cross that I might have eternal life.
He paid the price.

I never said otherwise. You are introducing a different concept, at "eternal life." This does not answer the question. That you cannot answer. Scripture says so. You do not know, and no one else does, either.

[bbyrd009]

But yes, I have a problem--with people who presume to answer what Scripture will not.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

But yes, I have a problem--with people who presume to answer what Scripture will not.

You have yet to quote Salomon's scripture.

And Salomon was not so wise in the long run. You have probably heard of a marriage made in heaven! Solomon had marriages made in hell. We know that because the devil used his pagan wives to turn his heart from God, the worst thing that could ever happen to Solomon. That’s much worse than dying physically, much worse than getting dethroned, much worse than some family problem. Solomon became an idolater because of his wives whom he deeply loved. He sought their approval above God’s. He wanted their good favor and affection more than what the true and living God could give.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

You have yet to quote Salomon's scripture.

I put it in, down there; but it was not meant to contradict you, I hope you understand, but to illuminate that for all your assurances, and flowery words, you have no idea what happens to you when you die. This is intentional. "You are here, and then you are not" is the best that anyone can tell you, 'born again' or not.

[Dordrecht]

No you did not put it in.
That scripture has nothing to do with
Salomon "saying nobody knows".

Maybe you should start reading the gospels.
It's very clear where Christians go when they die.

You are preaching a false gospel.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In the Gospels we read...

Matthew 17:3
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Now here's the kicker... Moses wasn't translated or raised from the dead. Moses was buried. And yet we see Moses standing here speaking to Christ.

Not to mention... Elijah wasn't translated to Heaven as some suppose. He died as all men do. Consider the details of this article:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Did-Elijah...th?&id=3085984

So we have two "dead" men appearing to Christ as living disembodied souls.

Oops! You forgot to read this part.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying , Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. Matt. 17:9

They saw a vision prepared by God for their instruction.

We see a like corporate vision given to some of the women after the resurrection.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished , which were early at the sepulchre; 23 And when they found not his body, they came , saying , that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. Luke 24:22-23

Moses and Elijah appeared in a vision. Christ said so.

Also your doctrine of "disembodied souls". Where does that come from. If Moses and Elijah had no bodies in the vision how did they know who they were?

Also the "disembodied" theory fails in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

The rich man SAW Abe. He saw Lazarus. They must have had bodies in the parable. The rich man asked Lazarus to dip his FINGER in water and dip it on his TONGUE.

In the parable they ALL HAD BODIES.

Which brings another point. If they already had bodies (and this is not a parable) why would they need a resurrection to yet ANOTHER BODY?

Wouldn't their "soul body" be sufficient? And the contradiction in this error is evident. Neither Abe, Lazarus, or the rich man are ever said to be "disembodied souls".

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

No you did not put it in.
That scripture has nothing to do with
Salomon "saying nobody knows".

Maybe you should start reading the gospels.
It's very clear where Christians go when they die.

You are preaching a false gospel.

Um, you might try an alternate reading of the Scripture I quoted; I have seen it written as I quoted it. Surely you are aware that more than one translation of Scriptures exists...

Maybe you should stop pontificating to people about things you are clueless about. It is as clear as mud where Christians "go when they die-" or BAM, enlighten us. You better have a postal address.

I am not interested in your twisted ejaculations of my view of the Gospel, which btw has nothing to do with where a believer goes when they die. To eternal life, of course. "Into the arms of Abraham," tra-la. None of these refute Solomon in Ecclesiastes, nor were they meant to. Sorry if you do not see that there are many more, and expanded, definitions of life after death than your provincial little seminary could inculcate. Deal with it.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What happens when we die? What do we expect with regards to Heaven's reality? Here are a few of my thoughts...

Angels Escort the Soul to Heaven - Luke 16:22

When a child of God dies, angels might be found escorting their soul to Heaven.

The Ladder to Heaven - Genesis 28:12

The soul might see a "ladder" leading to Heaven.

The Tunnel Leading to the Light - John 8:12; I John 1:5

A soul might see a tunnel that leads to "the Light".

The Road to Heaven – Isaiah 53:8

A soul might see a road before them that leads to Heaven.

Door to Heaven – Revelation 4:1

One might see a door before them that leads to Heaven.

Life Review - Matthew 12:36-37; Luke 12:2-3; John 5:22 (Jesus is judge);

The soul will encounter a life review wherein their actions and motives are revealed and judged.

Gan Eden (Garden of God/Eden of God/Paradise) – Isaiah 51:3; Ezekiel 28:13

The redeemed find themselves standing in a beautiful and lush garden paradise wherein they are greeted by the souls of family, friends, and loved ones.

The Gates of Pearl – Revelation 21:21

The soul will be brought to the city and see gates of pearl.

Heavenly City (New Jerusalem) – Revelation 21:9-27

The soul will behold a city with a beauty that surpasses all other cities.

Throne, River, Garden, 24 Elders, Tree of Life in Heaven – Revelation 4:4; Revelation 22:1-5;

The soul will see the Throne of God, the river of life, a beautiful garden, the tree of life, all in God's Hevenly throne room.

Time in Heaven - Revelation 6:10; 2 Peter 3:8; Revelation 1:8

There will be a sense of time in Heaven, although Heaven exists outside of time and space.

Door to Gehenna Before the Throne – Revelation 14:10-11

The door to Gehenna is before the very throne of God.

Thoughts?

I grew up believing what I guess most Christians believe. That upon death I would pass from earth to heaven where there would be some kind of accounting of my life (maybe at those pearly gates) and then I would hear 'enter in' and go to get my robe, crown, mansion, and walk on streets of gold. Of course there would be loved ones and friends, and some kind of useful work to do but at the end of the day I could just float on the clouds and play the harp. I think at one point I believed (as many decently educated people still do) that I would get wings and maybe even BE and angel.

My first hint that this was not how it was came when my son came home from the church school and started talking to me about the new Jerusalem, about the millennial reign and about about the Resurrection. Of course on some level I already knew about these things, I'd heard about them, I'd read about them... but I'd never sat through a funeral where they did not say the dearly departed was 'in a better place' or 'with God' or 'an angel now'. I was and still am very confused.

At this point I don't think I believe that 'to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' because if it were there would be no need for the trumpet that will cause 'the dead in Christ to rise and meet him in the air' unless God is going to pluck us out of heaven and stuff us back in the grave.

This is one (of many, many, many) that made me start to see the bible as more a compilation of stories inspired by God than the 'Infallible Word Of God' (deep booming voice for that quote please)...

So I like hearing what others believe but I don't like people saying that a different opinion is the 'doctrine of devils' or any of that... Honestly, it's pretty easy to extrapolate either message out of what is available in scripture so I think charity should rule in this topic.