Chronic Illness

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by renee819

And Houston, what was the messenger of Satan? A demon?
Paul had authority over demons. He would have just cast it out. Or off of him.

that biblenews1 guy has the only study on Paul's thorn that ever made sense to me; the gist being that one may earn--i guess is the word--authority over demons, but it doesn't just get bestowed automatically. Don't know if you're interested there, i can dig it up if you like. Could possibly even bear upon your case. The only other things that might, if you are eating 'country,' might be your water (fluoride, etc), prescription reactions, or a deficiency of something; assuming you go for a walk, or have some activity a couple times a week. Have you done a cleanse lately? Might work wonders.

[shazeep]

For what it's worth
http://search.freefind.com/find.html...ery=paul+thorn

in ref #1, about 70% down the page, subtitle 'Paul's Thorn,' might be of some help, if you can overcome the differences in your models. I don't agree with everything this guy says, he has blind spots, too, so caveat emptor. See that your doctrinal diffs don't matter, if he has Truth that works for you. I've included the whole search for 'Paul thorn' for further reference, bc in there somewhere is a great synopsis of Paul having finally reached Spiritual Rapport and overcome the thorn, with Scriptural quotes--but I'm not sure if that is in the first ref.

[shazeep]

if you have seen chemtrails in your area, and have fluoridated water, this will be pertinent
http://www.actionpa.org/fluoride/aluminum.html
but it's a toxic world; this is no secret. a week or two of cleanse once or twice a year is just good sense.
a 4 stage cleanse in the right order will, well, blow your mind, especially if you follow it up with a good powdered whole food vitamin.
and if you are eating out of a grocery store, CAFO protein, etc. now, i salute you for even being able to function.

[Abiding Now]

J/W. Since it was a "messenger of satan" sent to buffet the Apostle, why does it have to be a physical ailment, couldn't it have been a spiritual attack instead of a disease?

[shazeep]

nice.

[shazeep]

and although i can't overstress the importance of the spiritual aspect of maintaining ones health here, as most Americans are so in arrears there--do you 'go' at least 3 times a day? i don't think you can have a serious discussion about your health until you are--the answer from God seems to be clear in either case; "My Grace is sufficient." This is how Paul overcame his thorn, yes?

[votivesoul]

I'm not sure how anyone on this board feels, but I don't believe the "It's God's will to heal 100% of the time" view.

The tabernacles of flesh in which we dwell are corrupted by a law of sin. We are all prone to sickness, weakness, injury, leading up to death. Much of our health is dependent upon us to do right by our mortal frame.

But see, that's what they are: mortal, i.e. able to die. Somethings are worth suffering, including health problems, even if they are chronic, if such suffering makes us more Christ-like.

Suffering for Godly reasons is noble and is, in my view, the height of glory, this side of Glory. Remember the blind man, who had suffered with an uncurable, disabling health condition all his life. It was for the glory of God, so that when Jesus healed Him, it would be noised abroad, investigated by the Pharisees, and help lead Christ to His eventual arrest and crucifixion, where the name of God was glorified.

We have to get rid of the idea that any form of physical suffering must be a lack of faith, sin-based issue. In fact, we have Scripture that indicates suffering in the flesh might be a demonstration of the highest levels of faith, all the way up to proving that someone has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

So, if you are suffering, pray and push through. Let the affliction mold and make you more like Jesus.

And if God heals you, praise the Lord. If He does not, be faithful, even unto death, and know that there is a crown of righteousness stored up for you where no suffering exists.

And in the meantime, let's stop condemning the sick, the injured, and any other un-healed saints of God, as though the problem was with them. The only people God ever healed or heals are sinners!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I'm not sure how anyone on this board feels, but I don't believe the "It's God's will to heal 100% of the time" view.

The tabernacles of flesh in which we dwell are corrupted by a law of sin. We are all prone to sickness, weakness, injury, leading up to death. Much of our health is dependent upon us to do right by our mortal frame.

But see, that's what they are: mortal, i.e. able to die. Somethings are worth suffering, including health problems, even if they are chronic, if such suffering makes us more Christ-like.

Suffering for Godly reasons is noble and is, in my view, the height of glory, this side of Glory. Remember the blind man, who had suffered with an uncurable, disabling health condition all his life. It was for the glory of God, so that when Jesus healed Him, it would be noised abroad, investigated by the Pharisees, and help lead Christ to His eventual arrest and crucifixion, where the name of God was glorified.

We have to get rid of the idea that any form of physical suffering must be a lack of faith, sin-based issue. In fact, we have Scripture that indicates suffering in the flesh might be a demonstration of the highest levels of faith, all the way up to proving that someone has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

So, if you are suffering, pray and push through. Let the affliction mold and make you more like Jesus.

And if God heals you, praise the Lord. If He does not, be faithful, even unto death, and know that there is a crown of righteousness stored up for you where no suffering exists.

And in the meantime, let's stop condemning the sick, the injured, and any other un-healed saints of God, as though the problem was with them. The only people God ever healed or heals are sinners!

I tend to agree with you on this. It is a very difficult thing to just say that God intends for all his saints to be completely healthy, without a single illness or problem of any sort.

If you look at the lives of Paul and Timothy, we know that Paul suffered from some sort of issue, whether physical or spiritual, will always be a debate, as he never said exactly what it was, but he did suffer, and the Lord spoke to him and said "My grace is sufficient for thee" which would seem to imply it wasn't leaving, but that his grace would get him through.

And then, you see Paul writing to Timothy, and telling him to drink a little wine for his stomach ailments. So we understand through this, that sometimes God heals, sometimes he allows things, and sometimes he delivers... but it is his prerogative, and it is not for us to judge one another as though someone has done wrong, and they haven't received a complete healing...

There was another thread on here sometime back, where a poster, Evang. Benicasa seemed to think that if you weren't completely healed and delivered, it was because you didn't have enough faith. That kind of attitude has hindered many, many saints through the years, I believe.

[renee819]

Thank you, Thank you, Votive, for some common sense. I thought condemning the sick of sin, the teaching that” if you aren't healed when I pray for you, it must be because there is sin in your life.” went out of style, with the Charismatic, Positive confession, or “If I pray for you and you're not healed, then it is because you don't have enough faith.”

Votive wrote,

Suffering for Godly reasons is noble and is, in my view, the height of glory, this side of Glory. Remember the blind man, who had suffered with an uncurable, disabling health condition all his life. It was for the glory of God, so that when Jesus healed Him, it would be noised abroad, investigated by the Pharisees, and help lead Christ to His eventual arrest and crucifixion, where the name of God was glorified.

We have to get rid of the idea that any form of physical suffering must be a lack of faith, sin-based issue. In fact, we have Scripture that indicates suffering in the flesh might be a demonstration of the highest levels of faith, all the way up to proving that someone has ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

So, if you are suffering, pray and push through. Let the affliction mold and make you more like Jesus.

And if God heals you, praise the Lord. If He does not, be faithful, even unto death, and know that there is a crown of righteousness stored up for you where no suffering exists.

And in the meantime, let's stop condemning the sick, the injured, and any other un-healed saints of God, as though the problem was with them. The only people God ever healed or heals are sinners!

And yes, I can see many places where my illness has molded me. I was too ambitious as a young lady, a Dr once told me, that nature had to come in and give me a headache. I asked, why is that? He said that my brains would wear out 7 bodies, if nature didn't come in and stop me.

And because I could not do the physical things that I wanted to do, I turned to reading, study of the Bible and writing. And yet, thru it all, I've still always tried to garden, keep chickens, and have done many other things, that I wasn't able to do, or was barely able to do. And sometimes I wonder if God is pleased? Does He want me to just study and write? If so, I will. But I need to know for sure.

Where are our guides? Where are the “Gifts of the Spirit?” I believe the 'gifts' were given to the Church, as 'guides.” Are we, “all of us” so far away from God that the 'gifts' no longer operate? Is our minds so taken up, by worldly cares, and pleasures, that none, or very few hear from God any more.? Those that say they do, can we trust them? Can we trust ourselves when we think we hear from God.?

[renee819]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I tend to agree with you on this. It is a very difficult thing to just say that God intends for all his saints to be completely healthy, without a single illness or problem of any sort.

If you look at the lives of Paul and Timothy, we know that Paul suffered from some sort of issue, whether physical or spiritual, will always be a debate, as he never said exactly what it was, but he did suffer, and the Lord spoke to him and said "My grace is sufficient for thee" which would seem to imply it wasn't leaving, but that his grace would get him through.

And then, you see Paul writing to Timothy, and telling him to drink a little wine for his stomach ailments. So we understand through this, that sometimes God heals, sometimes he allows things, and sometimes he delivers... but it is his prerogative, and it is not for us to judge one another as though someone has done wrong, and they haven't received a complete healing...

There was another thread on here sometime back, where a poster, Evang. Benicasa seemed to think that if you weren't completely healed and delivered, it was because you didn't have enough faith. That kind of attitude has hindered many, many saints through the years, I believe.

Amen, Kept! It has hurt me many times. I remember one time, when I was prayed for the Evangelist said, "You are healed."
I said, "I hope so."
He looked at me with a snarl on his face and said, "That's your problem, You hope so. You've got to know so." I was hurt.

Why didn't Paul heal Trophimus in 2 Tim 4:20?

When a person is sick, sometimes their faith gets low. I believe that is why we are to call for the elders of he church. They are the one's that are supposed to have enough faith, that thru prayer, to heal the sick. But not wanting themselves to be blamed, they blame the lack of faith on the sick person. The sick person does have some faith, or they would not have called the elders.

One time when I had been in bed 2 days with a high temp. I called my Pastor, and while I was talking to him on the phone, my temp. broke, and I begin to get well. I have been healed many times of different things, but this chronic thing that has bothered me all of my life, I can not get rid of.