Are Christians Resonsible For Wars?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Short answer...yes

Long answer is not so clear. It's not religion. It's religious leaders or Political leaders who use religion and the gullibility of the general believers to wage wars and other things

I like that answer

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Ummmmmm.... It was not unconstitutional to own slaves at the time. In fact the constitution even addressed a slave as counting for 3/5 of a citizen for purposes of representation in the house of representatives. Slavery was quite constitutional at that time.

Slavery was NEVER constitutional.
They just had "clauses" to make it legal, that were unconstitutional. Much like some laws they pass these days that must be struck down by the supreme court...

This is what the constitution said...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
— Declaration of Independence, 1776

The 13th amendment ABOLISHED this unconstitutional law....
The Thirteenth Amendment
Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.




The Civil War wasnt over religion...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

If you think Hitler was a Catholic, you need to get your facts straight.

If I think Hitler was a Catholic?

My boy, please, I don't have to think Hitler was a Catholic, I know Hitler was a Catholic. My facts are straight, but are you looking for religious piety?

Sorry if I deflated your crème de la crème list of NON-RELIGIOUS mass murderers.

But maybe you should do a little reading outside of materials on "how to debate Atheists".

No slight against you personally so you shouldn't take my offering as an offense against you or your post. I was merely pointing out that your list of communist, imperialist, and fascist leaders was not a list of atheists by a long shot.

Originally Posted by Sean

The dude was a straight up psycho.

Excuse me, did that make him any less a Catholic? The simple skinny answer would be...no.

Originally Posted by Sean

Same with Pol Pot or Mao.

Well, I suggest you might want to look into it further. Also, you may not know this but Buddhists aren't smiling Dali Lama you see here visiting the United States. No they have a pretty violent history, especially the Tibetan Buddhists. It is my humble opinion that the communist Chinese in actuality liberated the Tibetan people from the horrible feudal conditions of the Tibetan system. But enough about that, you don't seem like a chap who wants to read new information which contradicts your paradigm. You would rather take your list and parade it in front of people who have slightly less knowledge then you do about the subject. They get amazed, you get pleased, yet inaccuracies were handed out, and nobody cared.

Originally Posted by Sean

If I claim to be pentecostal and I am a MASS MURDERER, would you call me religious, or some nut job?

Allow me to state the obvious, you would be a Pentecostal MASS MURDERER.

Originally Posted by Sean

You are NOTHING in reality unless you PRACTICE your beliefs' tenets.

Practice?

Hitler practiced his Catholicism as much as any religious individual in any religion, he showed up, he sat down, he may of listened to the liturgy, ate the cracker, and even was photographed numerous times leaving the cathedral.

Sorry, I cannot vouch for his piety, but as far as history records they see him as a Catholic.

What ever your bias, or opinions may lead you believe to be his character, as psychopath, villain, or the dark Lord Sauron it really doesn't make him any less a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

OK, this will be for free....

According to Pope Francis, “about 2%” of Catholic clergy are child molesters.

Now, this is the Roman Catholic Pope stating that 2% of his ministers are child molesters, now my question to you is, are they Catholics?

I'm not trying to see you defend whether they are good, pious, devout, or sticking to the church canon, but are they Catholics?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

Slavery was NEVER constitutional.
They just had "clauses" to make it legal, that were unconstitutional. Much like some laws they pass these days that must be struck down by the supreme court...

This is what the constitution said...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
— Declaration of Independence, 1776

The 13th amendment ABOLISHED this unconstitutional law....
The Thirteenth Amendment
Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.




The Civil War wasnt over religion...

The constitution and declaration of independence are two different things... I'm in utter amazement right now...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The constitution and declaration of independence are two different things... I'm in utter amazement right now...

Sadly I'm not

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Thanks and that's the problem I'm pointing out. A Christian by your definition can never do something horrible. It's simply impossible by definition. Then again a persons true Christian status can never really be ascertained in your view either. So since the definition is so retroactive why even bother trying to label someone as a Christian? Wouldn't the label professing Christian illuminate everything much better and then we could have God alone dictate who was a Christian on judgment day as it seems fitting for your definition of Christian?

Amen, good point.....
Actually , It is said that the Sinners gave us the name "Christian", in the 1st century. They knew these folks were the real deal....and represented Jesus well....

The New Name
"And it came about that for an entire year they met with the church, and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch." (Acts 11:23-26).

After having gone to Tarsus to get the new convert Saul, only recently a persecutor of the church himself, Barnabas returns with Saul and they work with the church at Antioch for a year. What an encouragement he must have been to Saul, for most believers were still afraid of him. Later, Barnabas and Saul (soon to be known as Paul) will travel through Asia Minor together establishing many churches in many different cities. Antioch would become their "headquarters" from where they would launch their missions and return after completing them.

It was during this year in which Barnabas and Saul are at Antioch that the disciples were first called "Christians". The disciples were followers of Christ. A disciple of Jesus is happy to wear His name. Later, Peter tells disciples to "in that name (that is, in the name "Christian" -J.Q.) let him glorify God." (1 Peter 4:16). Though the enemies of Christ may speak the name with a sneer, disciples wear it joyfully. The Lord has been sanctified in our hearts (1 Peter 3:15).

Not every believer becomes a disciple, but every disciple is a Christian. "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Good night.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The constitution and declaration of independence are two different things... I'm in utter amazement right now...

They were connected....bet ya never knew that...

True American Government
Constitution Connected To the Declaration of Independence

The Supreme Court declared in 1897, the Constitution is the body and letter of which the Declaration of Independence is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence.

The Constitution itself connects itself to the Declaration of Independence by dating itself from the date of the Declaration of Independence, thereby showing clearly that it is the second great document in the government of these United States and is not to be understood without the first. How many today say the Constitution stands alone devoid of all reference to the Declaration? Let them see hear and understand what those who wrote the Constitution said about our American government. See Article VII.

The Founders believed the Declaration was the foundational document in our Constitutional form of government. The Founders dated their government acts from the year of the Declaration rather than the Constitution. The date of the Declaration of Independence was the recognized date of Sovereignty and Independence of the United States.

In the Declaration, the Founders established the foundation and the core values on which the Constitution was to operate. The Constitution was never to be interpreted apart from those values expressed in the Declaration.

Samuel Adams pointed out: Before the formation of this Constitution this Declaration of Independence was received and ratified by all the States in the Union, and has never been disannulled.

Well into the twentieth century, the Declaration and the Constitution were viewed as inseparable and interdependent. While the Court's change of standards has perhaps been a display of poor judgment, the Court's actions have actually been illegal under the standards of original intent. Furthermore they have violated the value system of "the laws of nature and of nature's God" established in the Declaration of Independence.

"The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians." John Qunicy Adams

p>

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

They were connected....bet ya never knew that...

True American Government
Constitution Connected To the Declaration of Independence

The Supreme Court declared in 1897, the Constitution is the body and letter of which the Declaration of Independence is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence.

The Constitution itself connects itself to the Declaration of Independence by dating itself from the date of the Declaration of Independence, thereby showing clearly that it is the second great document in the government of these United States and is not to be understood without the first. How many today say the Constitution stands alone devoid of all reference to the Declaration? Let them see hear and understand what those who wrote the Constitution said about our American government. See Article VII.

The Founders believed the Declaration was the foundational document in our Constitutional form of government. The Founders dated their government acts from the year of the Declaration rather than the Constitution. The date of the Declaration of Independence was the recognized date of Sovereignty and Independence of the United States.

In the Declaration, the Founders established the foundation and the core values on which the Constitution was to operate. The Constitution was never to be interpreted apart from those values expressed in the Declaration.

Samuel Adams pointed out: Before the formation of this Constitution this Declaration of Independence was received and ratified by all the States in the Union, and has never been disannulled.

Well into the twentieth century, the Declaration and the Constitution were viewed as inseparable and interdependent. While the Court's change of standards has perhaps been a display of poor judgment, the Court's actions have actually been illegal under the standards of original intent. Furthermore they have violated the value system of "the laws of nature and of nature's God" established in the Declaration of Independence.

"The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians." John Qunicy Adams

p>

Dude you said the constitution said "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
— Declaration of Independence, 1776"

Your statement is flat our wrong. No amount of historical evidence will ever make the constitution say what you claimed it says. Seriously dude, fess up. You typed too fast or something. But don't act like arguing that the constitution and declaration of independence are related makes your previous statement correct.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

They were connected....bet ya never knew that...

True American Government
Constitution Connected To the Declaration of Independence

The Supreme Court declared in 1897, the Constitution is the body and letter of which the Declaration of Independence is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence.

The Constitution itself connects itself to the Declaration of Independence by dating itself from the date of the Declaration of Independence, thereby showing clearly that it is the second great document in the government of these United States and is not to be understood without the first. How many today say the Constitution stands alone devoid of all reference to the Declaration? Let them see hear and understand what those who wrote the Constitution said about our American government. See Article VII.

The Founders believed the Declaration was the foundational document in our Constitutional form of government. The Founders dated their government acts from the year of the Declaration rather than the Constitution. The date of the Declaration of Independence was the recognized date of Sovereignty and Independence of the United States.

In the Declaration, the Founders established the foundation and the core values on which the Constitution was to operate. The Constitution was never to be interpreted apart from those values expressed in the Declaration.

Samuel Adams pointed out: Before the formation of this Constitution this Declaration of Independence was received and ratified by all the States in the Union, and has never been disannulled.

Well into the twentieth century, the Declaration and the Constitution were viewed as inseparable and interdependent. While the Court's change of standards has perhaps been a display of poor judgment, the Court's actions have actually been illegal under the standards of original intent. Furthermore they have violated the value system of "the laws of nature and of nature's God" established in the Declaration of Independence.

"The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians." John Qunicy Adams

p>

By the way, you really should cite your source:
http://www.christianparents.com/deconst.htm