Racist Facts

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Maybe. I'd think he wouldn't need to resort to fact spinning the decline of the two parent unit as an observation in support of his view that poverty and racism have nothing to do with that is going on.

I think he is smarter than you.

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Again, are this actions or reactions? I am not justifying anything. But there several factors in play here.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

No, but blatant fact spinning does weaken ones position and undermines the rest of what you write.

Then let's stick with proving someone is distorting facts

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Then let's stick with proving someone is distorting facts

So let's look at all income levels in 1960? Were families more likely to stay together in 1960 than today regardless of income level, yes? The answer is yes. Keep this in mind for later.

The best way to show that poverty and single parent families are linked is to look at a specific time. So let's look at currently. I'm sure I can go dig up the numbers but we all know what they will say. The facts say that it's significantly more like that those who live in poverty also have only a single parent family.

Now if one wanted to make the case that single parent families and poverty were not linked you would choose a different time period like 1960. You would then go about showing that there was no link in 1960 between single parent families and poverty.

However, that's not what the guy who wrote PO's article did. He instead tries to compare single parent families and the poverty level in 1960 with the same today. He comes away with this fact:

that poverty was worse in 1960 than it is today and single parent families were less than today.

So what if poverty in 1960 was linked with less single family homes than it is today? The real question is, in 1960 was poverty also linked with more single family homes? And the answer to that question is yes.

Now remember as well that we already discussed how families of all income levels were more likely to stay together in 1960.

So now we have 2 facts. Poverty in 1960 is linked with single family households. Families of all income levels were more likely to stay together in 1960 than today. Combining those 2 facts we get the true story:

Poverty was linked with single family households in 1960 as well, however because families as a whole were more likely to stay together regardless of income then it's apparent that there would be more 2 parent households in 1960 than today just because parents of all income levels were more likely to stay together.

Thus, you can have poverty and single family households linked and still have more single parent families today than you did at a more impoverished time in 1960.

End of proof.

So ultimately the guy was just plain wrong to include the fact he cited in support of his position.

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Again, are this actions or reactions? I am not justifying anything. But there several factors in play here.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

Again, are this actions or reactions? I am not justifying anything. But there several factors in play here.

There's no study I'm aware of that can tell cause from effect. That is unless you want to do actual human experiments to show which is which?

[Fionn mac Cumh]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There's no study I'm aware of that can tell cause from effect. That is unless you want to do actual human experiments to show which is which?

Well its not hard to figure out. Look at the unemployment rates in these areas. We need to get people of all color back to work. Idle hands are the devils workshop. Many of these criminals of all color come from horrible family situations. Many of the people have no education. Education needs to be stressed. Also, we have a history of racism in this country. You cant ignore the facts.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

Well its not hard to figure out. Look at the unemployment rates in these areas. We need to get people of all color back to work. Idle hands are the devils workshop. Many of these criminals of all color come from horrible family situations. Many of the people have no education. Education needs to be stressed. Also, we have a history of racism in this country. You cant ignore the facts.

It's not hard to figure out whether poverty causes single parent homes or whether single family homes cause poverty or whether they cause each other or whether something else causes them both?

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

Well its not hard to figure out. Look at the unemployment rates in these areas. We need to get people of all color back to work. Idle hands are the devils workshop. Many of these criminals of all color come from horrible family situations. Many of the people have no education. Education needs to be stressed. Also, we have a history of racism in this country. You cant ignore the facts.

Show me a country that does not have a history of racism.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by jfrog

So let's look at all income levels in 1960? Were families more likely to stay together in 1960 than today regardless of income level, yes? The answer is yes. Keep this in mind for later.

The best way to show that poverty and single parent families are linked is to look at a specific time. So let's look at currently. I'm sure I can go dig up the numbers but we all know what they will say. The facts say that it's significantly more like that those who live in poverty also have only a single parent family.

Now if one wanted to make the case that single parent families and poverty were not linked you would choose a different time period like 1960. You would then go about showing that there was no link in 1960 between single parent families and poverty.

However, that's not what the guy who wrote PO's article did. He instead tries to compare single parent families and the poverty level in 1960 with the same today. He comes away with this fact:

that poverty was worse in 1960 than it is today and single parent families were less than today.

So what if poverty in 1960 was linked with less single family homes than it is today? The real question is, in 1960 was poverty also linked with more single family homes? And the answer to that question is yes.

Now remember as well that we already discussed how families of all income levels were more likely to stay together in 1960.

So now we have 2 facts. Poverty in 1960 is linked with single family households. Families of all income levels were more likely to stay together in 1960 than today. Combining those 2 facts we get the true story:

Poverty was linked with single family households in 1960 as well, however because families as a whole were more likely to stay together regardless of income then it's apparent that there would be more 2 parent households in 1960 than today just because parents of all income levels were more likely to stay together.

Thus, you can have poverty and single family households linked and still have more single parent families today than you did at a more impoverished time in 1960.

End of proof.

So ultimately the guy was just plain wrong to include the fact he cited in support of his position.

JF - I think you are missing his main point.

"The “legacy of slavery” argument is not just an excuse for inexcusable behavior in the ghettos. In a larger sense, it is an evasion of responsibility for the disastrous consequences of the prevailing social vision of our times, and the political policies based on that vision, over the past half century."

He is saying that the welfare state has failed.