Israel and their corn

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Interesting thing I stumbled across tonight and it may be just for the simple minded. I was reading tonight in the Old Testament about grain offerings. It mentioned corn that was beaten and it appeared to me that corn as we know it did not likely exist in that part of the world in those days. Corn as we know it, was domesticated in the Americas.

Other Bible translations say grain in the place of corn. The English word for corn simply means kernels (by some dictionaries). No doubt, the KJV translators had a different use of the word for corn when it was translated. Wheat, barley, oats, etc. could all be considered corn.

It was a grain with kernels in the OT they would have used, but the mental picture we get of golden yellow corn is just another example of how our understanding of language can affect the mental images we see when reading the Bible.

What us Southrons call "corn" used to be called "Indian corn". Now I call it "Monsanto k0rn".

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by n david

No, it's not a translation.

"""In an interview with Christianity Today, Peterson described the beginning of the creative process that produced The Message: "I just kind of let go and became playful."""

http://www.gotquestions.org/The-Message-MSG.html

There's also a weird issue with Peterson using "Master" instead of "Lord," which some claim is a sort of homage to New Ageism. Not sure I agree with that or not, just interesting.

Again, what passages do you have an issue with?

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Again, what passages do you have an issue with?

The whole "playfully" written book.

One of the well criticized verses is Matthew 5:5, where Peterson goes well away from any translation to insert his personal doctrine:

"You are truly blessed when
you are content with just who
you are - no more, no less."

He takes out homosexuality as a sin from 1 Corinthians, choosing to rather to write against those who "abuse sex."

I don't need to list everything for you. If you've read it, you should know. If you haven't, I don't have the time or desire to do your homework for you.

Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but you ask stuff like this all the time. Do some research for yourself.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Another example of why English has deteriorated to where most English speakers in America are almost illiterate.

Because they don't use the KJV?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Because they don't use the KJV?

No, because they can't stand to learn the whole language into which they were born and raised. As an example, just this minute I was reading a passage from Philo:

"The solemn assembly on the occasion of the festival of the sheaf having such great privileges, is the prelude to another festival of still greater importance; for from this day the fiftieth day is reckoned, making up the sacred number of seven sevens, with the addition of a unit as a seal to the whole; and this festival, being that of the first fruits of the corn, has derived its name of pentecost from the number of fifty, (pentekostos). And on it it is the custom to offer up two leavened loaves made of wheat, as a first fruit of the best kind of food made of corn; either because, before the fruit of the year is converted to the use of man, the first produce of the new crop, the first gathered corn that appears is offered as a first fruit, in order that by an insignificant emblem the people may display their grateful disposition;" (Philo, Special Laws, Book II, 30:176)

I mean, look at that. 'Corn' repeatedly used for wheat! Too bad nobody can understand what was written, because 'corn' means that big yellow stuff off the cob 'cordin to Mama - not to be confused with hominy, ya hear! Lord forbid anyone should actually learn ENGLISH and thereby understand that 'corn' means THIS:

1corn
noun, often attributive \ˈkȯrn\
Definition of corn
1
chiefly dialect : a small hard particle : grain
2
: a small hard seed —usually used in combination <peppercorn> <barleycorn>
3
British : the grain of a cereal grass that is the primary crop of a region (as wheat in Britain and oats in Scotland and Ireland); also : a plant that produces corn
4
a : a tall annual cereal grass (Zea mays) originally domesticated in Mexico and widely grown for its large elongated ears of starchy seeds —called also Indian corn, maize
b : the typically yellow or whitish seeds of corn used especially as food for humans and livestock
c : an ear of corn with or without its leafy outer covering

Origin of corn
Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German & Old Norse korn grain, Latin granum

First Known Use: before 12th century

(from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corn )

smh

[Esaias]

"With these words he moved the hearts of the multitude, so many of them as knew not the cunning counsel of Agamemnon. They surged to and fro like the waves of the Icarian Sea, when the east and south winds break from heaven's clouds to lash them; or as when the west wind sweeps over a field of corn and the ears bow beneath the blast, even so were they swayed as they flew with loud cries towards the ships, and the dust from under their feet rose heavenward. They cheered each other on to draw the ships into the sea; they cleared the channels in front of them; they began taking away the stays from underneath them, and the welkin rang with their glad cries, so eager were they to return. " (Homer, Iliad, Book II, paragraph 10)

LOOK AT THAT HORRIBLE TRANSLATION! Why, they used the word CORN! Everyone knows the Greeks and Trojans didn't have Indian corn (maize), so obviously the translation is stupid, horrible, terrible, ought to be updated, etc. I mean COME ON, they even have that stupid archaic word 'welkin'. Good grief nobody can read it!

Oh wait a minute... people who read Homer probably know what 'corn' actually means... they might even be the types to actually look up 'welkin' in a dictionary for bonus points... But then again, who bothers reading Homer these days? After all, we have South Park and The Message (tm), top of the line relevant literature right there, I tell ya!

yuk yuk

[Esaias]

Do you people realise that the word 'corn' appears EIGHT TIMES in the FIRST BOOK of Herodotus' Histories alone? EIGHT TIMES? What were the translators thinking?

"The purpose for which he gave these orders was the following. He hoped that the Sardian herald, seeing so great store of corn upon the ground, and all the city given up to festivity, would inform Alyattes of it, which fell out as he anticipated. The herald observed the whole, and when he had delivered his message, went back to Sardis. This circumstance alone, as I gather, brought about the peace which ensued. Alyattes, who had hoped that there was now a great scarcity of corn in Miletus, and that the people were worn down to the last pitch of suffering, when he heard from the herald on his return from Miletus tidings so contrary to those he had expected, made a treaty with the enemy by which the two nations became close friends and allies. He then built at Assesus two temples to Minerva instead of one, and shortly after recovered from his malady. Such were the chief circumstances of the war which Alyattes waged with Thrasybulus and the Milesians. "

There was a WalMart dedicated just to selling that big yellow corn in Miletus? But the Sardians thought the Miletians would be scared of the yellow stuff? Maybe they were talking about hominy grits, and it just all got lost in the stupid, useless, out of date translation?

[Esaias]

People who think the KJV is somehow deficient because it uses the word 'corn' are CORNY, and have a CORNBALL worldview, in my opinion. How y'all like them grits?

[Esaias]

"Two days after that—there having been a very heavy rise in the price of corn, and great crowds having flocked first to the theatre and then to the senate-house, shouting out, at the instigation of Clodius, that the scarcity of corn was my doing—meetings of the senate being held on those days to discuss the corn question, and Pompey being called upon to undertake the management of its supply in the common talk not only of the plebs, but of the aristocrats also, and being himself desirous of the commission, when the people at large called upon me by name to support a decree to that effect, I did so, and gave my vote in a carefully-worded speech." - Cicero, Letter To Atticus (In Epirus), Harvard Classics transl. 1904-1911.

Them Harvard people got me all plumb confused. Corn cobs gettin too expensive, the 'corn question', people was scared of corn cuz of this Sissy-ro guy? Did he introduce grits to the Romans? roman grits? Sissy grits? Can't understand it, too archaic and too misleading. Harvard really dropped the ball on this one, fer shore.

[Esaias]

BTW, cornpone is good stuff, goes great with almost everything. It is NOT an insult except as used by illiterate yankees.