Family Issue:

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Please explain what role a pastor could play in this situation other than to pray. I am not sure I would even share this with my pastor.

This is a type of life lesson/parable. Kind of a Marty Ballestero story to drive a point home. Like pilgrims progress. Aquilla is (the caring pastor). The son is (the misled Saint) that is being influenced by the compromising church/the devil (the Ex wife) and the friends are what they are, bad influence.( the world). The police rep (God) Busted!!

[votivesoul]

So-called "over protective parenting" is a bunch of new age nonsense.

When I was a kid, my brothers and I roamed the neighborhood with friends, and it wasn't long before we were egging churches, getting into fist fights, throwing snow and ice balls at passing cars, trespassing, skipping class, stealing and shoplifting, killing animals, blowing stuff up with fire-crackers, making Molotov Cocktails with lighter fluid and setting dumpsters on fire, pranking and scaring the elderly, lying to the cops, getting hurt doing stupid stuff, practicing witchcraft, and all sorts of other bad behavior.

And all because we had our freedom to go and be un-supervised all summer long, year after year.

[shazeep]

sounds familiar, but i think it is because every productive urge is stifled, and not necessarily from an excess of freedom--although everyone is different.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Okay, I'm a bit upset. My ex-wife allows our 9 year old son to wander the neighborhood unsupervised with his friends ranging from younger than 9 to 11. She's really into this "give him freedom to make mistakes thing". I'm leery about it. At my home, my son is nearly always supervised and limits are placed on where he can go, when, and with whom. So, naturally, he isn't always very thrilled with coming over to my house when he can run around freely without any adults supervising him at her house.

Well, she sent me a message via Facebook this morning. Please share your thoughts. I also would appreciate your prayers. Here it is....

10:02am

Her: Hey there, got a sec?

Me: Sure.

Her: So, Noah and a couple of the neighborhood boys got ahold of a couple of cans of spray paint Monday night and made a mess of a bunch of things in the alley on mom's garage, the neighbor's fence, our garage, and a couple of other places.
To compound things, when I asked Noah about it he lied and said he didn't do it, even though he came home covered in spray paint.
So... little dude is on lock down for a while. He's lost most of his game and youtube priviledges, he's grounded from playing with his friends, he can't play with his nerf gun, etc.
He lied to me about it, and Ken, Isaiah's mom (Isaiah is the one who finally told the truth), and even the police officer that Ken called out to investigate.
Jesse is going to help him scrub the paint off where he can.
I wanted to let you know so that his consequences carry over to your place - no games, etc.

Me: Any legal repercussions? Vandalism, etc.?

Her: No, thankfully. Although there's been a lot of tagging in the neighborhood lately and I'm concerned that they're going to come knocking on my door now if something else gets damaged.

Me: Ouch.

Her: (Part of the reason he's grounded from being out of our sight)

Me: Noah's a good kid. In all honesty, some of his friends worry me.

Her: He does have some Netflix privileges still, mainly because I have to work and he'd drive me crazy without something to keep him occupied.
He is a good kid. The other kids are too, for the most part. I think they just got carried away - we all do stupid ........ at that age. The big deal for me is that he didn't fess up. I know why - he was afraid of getting in trouble - but I explained to him that because he lied it's now so much worse.

Me: Where were the parents of these kids while this was happening?

Her: If he told the truth he could fix it.
We all thought they were just in the alley playing like they always do.
Part of having the freedom is having the freedom to make mistakes, ya know?

Me: Okay, I'll be sure to carry over the restrictions.

Her: He mentioned to me when I told him that I was letting you know that he was afraid you'd lock him in his room and not feed him. That sounded to me like an exaggeration, but I wanted to make sure that wasn't what you had in mind.

Me: Lol I'd not do that. Lol

Her: I didn't think so.

Me: So, no games or media?

Her: Right. His phone is on total lockdown - he should only be able to make calls and send messages and a few other things.

Me: We rarely let them outside without supervision, so we'll keep that going.
Who's property got damaged?

Her: Like I said, I've given him netflix to give him something to keep him occupied. And I've always told him that family time is always free - he'll never have board games or doing stuff with mom taken away from him.
Mine, Mom's, Mandy's (Max's mom), and Mom & Ken's next door neighbor.

Me: Ouch.

Her: And, technically, the City's... there are a couple of orange city barrels out there that they got.
They're also losing the basketball net... Ken is taking it down.

Me: I know you realize you could have had some serious liability.
Did you explain that to Noah?

Her: Oh yeah, in spades.
I made him cry. I felt like sh**, but I think he needed it.

Me: Crying can be good, sometimes.
What color was it?

Her: White and like a teal green.
He's going to be feeling the pain of the consequences for a while. We are getting the PS4 this weekend, and he has a $75 gift code that he can't use.
He was pretty upset about his nerf gun being off limits too

Me: I don't know the law that well, could Noah have been charged with destruction of property or vandalism?

Her: Probably. The cop didn't seem too concerned though.
Which was a frustration in and of itself. The cop was pretty laid back about it. I wanted him to scare the bejeezus out of Noah so he'd get the picture. LOL

Me: I'd have had the cop cuff him and put him in the cruiser to sweat a little.
Lol

Her: Well, at the time we talked to the cop, the truth hadn't come out from Isaiah yet. But Noah had spray paint all over his legs, and I knew he had something to do with it but he wasn't budging on his story that it wasn't him.

Me: I know he's young. I did dumb things like this at his age. Started stealing out of yard with the Hutch***** boys and the Vander*****. I could have had a record before 12, easy.
We even vandalized a few cars.

Her: Yep.

Me: John Sp**** set a fire to cover up a break-in and was arrested for arson. Tim ******* was arrested for raping a neighbor girl. I think both were between 13 and 14 years old.
All out running the neighborhood, unsupervised.
I don't think Noah would be that bad....
But all it takes is the wrong friends to get Noah involved with something that could be very bad.

Her: This sort of feels like a criticism of the freedom I let him have... am I reading this wrong?

Me: These kinds of things scare me a lot sometimes. I was lucky.
I don't mean to seem critical. Just worried. I was a little boy running around with friends at one time. Those times were when we did things that could have gotten us locked up, charged, etc. Those were also the times we were introduced to drugs. I just worry because of personal experience.
The drugs scared me. Stealing and vandalism didn't for some reason.
Sean **** made me the look out when they got high off paint, glue, and eventually pot, and then acid (microdots).
We just have one chance at this. It worries me. That's all.
Then, if course, there's, Billy (my brother who was killed in a hit and run at 7).
All happened outside of the loving supervision of a parent. Freedom is important. But it can also be deadly. Sometimes it's hard to find the balance.
I'm just a dad.
I worry. And it will get worse as he gets older.

Her: There are risks, always. There are risks in going for a ride in the car. Part of adulting is understanding what the risks truly are and not letting them overpower what's best for a kid's learning and development. I'm not upset that he made the mistake of spray painting stuff. I want him to make those kinds of mistakes, now, where I can correct them and show him the consequences.

Me: They used to get high under the tracks on Linden Ave.

Her: You have benefited from the mistakes you made. But we can't just talk those lessons to Noah, he's got to know them.

Me: It could have been worse.
There are some things I wish my mom had kept me from. The night John set the fire....my mom said I couldn't go. I really didn't want to because John was with Neil, and he had beat me up a couple times and would take my bike and ride it, me begging for him to give it back. I'd have been implicated in the arson, had I gone.
I was 13.
But had mom not cared, I'd have gone for the pressure.
Teal green??? Yuck.
Billy died crossing Drummer to meet older kids on the way to Bomburger park. Mom was in the shower, told him he could go, but be careful.
That fast. It was over.
I just worry.
I'll enforce your restrictions. I'm glad it was only painting a few things. Lol
I'm glad no serious trouble came out of it.

Her: Yeah, I think it's a good lesson

Me: Me too.
I'll talk with him. But I won't lay into him. Sounds like you already gave him the riot act.

Her: It was a calm and measured riot act - from me, then Jesse, then my mom came over.

Me: Poor guy, probably scared out of his mind.

Her: It may have been calm but I think he would have rather I yelled and gone crazy.

Me: Calm can really affect him. He steels himself against crazy.
Calm also sends the message more clearly.
Thanks for giving me the heads up.

Her: Yeah, of course!

Am I being too protective? Is she being too disengaged as a parent? What are some of your thoughts on the above?

I need some food for thought as I ponder this.

Sincerely,

A Loving Father

I have respect for how you and you and your ex-wife were able to communicate this well. I don't think there is a fix to your problem. Children are raised with a multitude of parenting styles and every one has differing results. Some kids do better with such liberty than others. It has lot to do with kids. I am pretty tight reigned on my own children, but me and there mom are together so there is no confusion. Divorce is is never going to be good on the kids. Even at best there is repecussions. Children play their parents against one another and most of the time it works. Every one wants to be the number one and in the end the child loses.

Again, I compliment how you and your ex-wife communicated. I would say you are doing as good as you can in your situation. When he is in your custody raise him right and pray for him when he is not. Continue to keep a good report with his mother. Be the Christian father for your son to see and saturate him your prayers. Never give up on him.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

So-called "over protective parenting" is a bunch of new age nonsense.

When I was a kid, my brothers and I roamed the neighborhood with friends, and it wasn't long before we were egging churches, getting into fist fights, throwing snow and ice balls at passing cars, trespassing, skipping class, stealing and shoplifting, killing animals, blowing stuff up with fire-crackers, making Molotov Cocktails with lighter fluid and setting dumpsters on fire, pranking and scaring the elderly, lying to the cops, getting hurt doing stupid stuff, practicing witchcraft, and all sorts of other bad behavior.

And all because we had our freedom to go and be un-supervised all summer long, year after year.

My sentiments exactly!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have respect for how you and you and your ex-wife were able to communicate this well. I don't think there is a fix to your problem. Children are raised with a multitude of parenting styles and every one has differing results. Some kids do better with such liberty than others. It has lot to do with kids. I am pretty tight reigned on my own children, but me and there mom are together so there is no confusion. Divorce is is never going to be good on the kids. Even at best there is repecussions. Children play their parents against one another and most of the time it works. Every one wants to be the number one and in the end the child loses.

Again, I compliment how you and your ex-wife communicated. I would say you are doing as good as you can in your situation. When he is in your custody raise him right and pray for him when he is not. Continue to keep a good report with his mother. Be the Christian father for your son to see and saturate him your prayers. Never give up on him.

Thank you.

We get along better now than when we were married. lol

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have respect for how you and you and your ex-wife were able to communicate this well. I don't think there is a fix to your problem. Children are raised with a multitude of parenting styles and every one has differing results. Some kids do better with such liberty than others. It has lot to do with kids. I am pretty tight reigned on my own children, but me and there mom are together so there is no confusion. Divorce is is never going to be good on the kids. Even at best there is repecussions. Children play their parents against one another and most of the time it works. Every one wants to be the number one and in the end the child loses.

Again, I compliment how you and your ex-wife communicated. I would say you are doing as good as you can in your situation. When he is in your custody raise him right and pray for him when he is not. Continue to keep a good report with his mother. Be the Christian father for your son to see and saturate him your prayers. Never give up on him.

I agree with this GS!

In a situation with divorce, it is always tough to parent a child half the time. I would say you are doing the best you can to try and teach your child and you conveyed it well to his mother too. Praying fervently for him, and then keeping firm consistent boundaries when he is with you is the best you can do at this point, until the Lord touches his heart, and he commits his life to Christ. The Lord is able to do miraculous things in the midst of this very difficult situation.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

After everything that happened in our church my ex became an avowed atheist/agnostic and decided that living for "God" wasn't what she desired. That makes it real difficult. I'm still trying to live for God. Not perfect, but trying. I don't blame God for everything that happened. But she's of a different opinion.

You can't "make" an ex handle a child the way you believe is correct, you can only suggest and reason in a non offensive way. I think you did a great job of that.

It sounded to me like a very reasonable exchange between two parents raising a child apart. Kudos to you two. I know it must be frustrating for you for her not to have more control over the friends he hangs out with and more supervision but you can only do what you can do. Oh, and pray!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

After everything that happened in our church my ex became an avowed atheist/agnostic and decided that living for "God" wasn't what she desired. That makes it real difficult. I'm still trying to live for God. Not perfect, but trying. I don't blame God for everything that happened. But she's of a different opinion.

You can't "make" an ex handle a child the way you believe is correct, you can only suggest and reason in a non offensive way. I think you did a great job of that.

It sounded to me like a very reasonable exchange between two parents raising a child apart. Kudos to you two. I know it must be frustrating for you for her not to have more control over the friends he hangs out with and more supervision but you can only do what you can do. Oh, and pray!

[Esther]

I don't agree with her concept on raising children. Generally when something bad happens they blame everyone but themselves.

He is too young to run unrestrained. IMO