Jesus Said To "Watch"---Watch for What?

[houston]

Preterism for the win!

[shazeep]

i think both theories have some deficiencies.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Reading Mark 13 the other day, Jesus told us to "keep watch" because we do not know when the owner of the house will come back. He says "if he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping." Then he says, "what I say to you I say to everyone, 'Watch!'"

What do you think Jesus is admonishing us to watch for---what would constitute someone sleeping? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.

He's probably telling his disciples quit spending so much time on social media/forums.

Thankfully, we have something called preterism.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, that does seem to be the only part that preterists have not covered too well

26Then they will see the •Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27He will send out the angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.

The Greek actually reads the LAND, talking about Israel. And gathering is speaking about the four winds, which are the four horsemen if you read Zech 6 and Rev 6. Gathered from the destruction. It contrasts their gathering as a hen gathers her chicks, but they refused. SO, instead the elect are gathered.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Did Jesus come back at the destruction of the Temple?

Yes, but which coming?

The second coming is not mentioned anywhere in the gospels except John 5. But we do read of His coming to the husbandmen who refused to give Him the fruits of the vineyard.

Matthew 21:40-41 KJV When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

The we have this: A coming in the lifetimes of the people hearing Him.

Matthew 16:28 KJV Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this...

Matthew 10:23 KJV But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

That is the only coming in Matt that we read about before chapter 24 when the disciples ask about His coming.

And how does this passage jibe with "all scripture is profitable". How does this passage apply to us today if it was for a specific moment that has passed?

How does the scriptures of the problems Paul dealt with in Corinthians apply to us today? EXAMPLES. LESSONS.

We learn to always serve the Lord and walk after Him, for judgment comes to those who don't.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I agree. Jesus and the prophets gave us plenty of signs to look for. He said we were to "look" for His coming. He said "when you SEE the fig tree produce its leaves you know the time of figs is near." There are things we can see and know His coming is near.

The fig tree blossoming is a symbol of all the events happening that Jesus listed, IN ONE GENERATION. It's not Israel nor is it Israel becoming a nation. It is all THESE THINGS Jesus listed including the temple destruction. So, if the temple was destroyed in AD70, the generation alive then is the generation, as well as all the other events happening in that same time period.

Matthew 24:32-33 KJV Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: (33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Greek actually reads the LAND, talking about Israel. And gathering is speaking about the four winds, which are the four horsemen if you read Zech 6 and Rev 6. Gathered from the destruction. It contrasts their gathering as a hen gathers her chicks, but they refused. SO, instead the elect are gathered.

well, that deals with v 27, but not v 26? We have no preterist account for "then they will see..." or "He will return the same way He left" Acts 1:11 iow--even though the Canon was still open in 70 AD? Or rather we do, but it seems contrary to Acts 1:11, wherein any person would read "Christ will physically descend, just like He rose."

and i think DB was just directing us back to the spiritual nature of the passage, as i had intimated that it had no application to the present day.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, that deals with v 27, but not v 26? We have no preterist account for "then they will see..." or "He will return the same way He left" Acts 1:11 iow--even though the Canon was still open in 70 AD? Or rather we do, but it seems contrary to Acts 1:11, wherein any person would read "Christ will physically descend, just like He rose."

and i think DB was just directing us back to the spiritual nature of the passage, as i had intimated that it had no application to the present day.

The second coming takes place as they saw Him go. That is not the coming of Matt 24. Like Adam Clarke said:

If they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert - Is it not worthy of remark that our Lord not only foretold the appearance of these impostors, but also the manner and circumstances of their conduct? Some he mentions as appearing in the desert. Josephus says, Ant. b. xx. c. 7, and War, book ii. c. 13: That many impostors and cheats persuaded the people to follow them to the desert, promising to show them signs and wonders done by the providence of God, is well attested. An Egyptian false prophet, mentioned by Josephus, Ant. b. xx. c. 7, and in the Acts, Act_21:38, led out into the Desert four thousand men, who were murderers, but these were all taken or destroyed by Felix. Another promised salvation to the people, if they would follow him to the Desert, and he was destroyed by Festus, Ant. b. xx. c. 7. Also, one Jonathan, a weaver, persuaded a number to follow him to the Desert, but he was taken and burnt alive by Vespasian. See War, b. vii. c. 11.
As some conducted their deluded followers to the Desert, so did others to the secret chambers. Josephus mentions a false prophet, War, b. vi. c. 5, who declared to the people in the city, that God commanded them to go up into the temple, and there they should receive the signs of deliverance. A multitude of men, women, and children, went up accordingly; but, instead of deliverance, the place was set on fire by the Romans, and 6,000 perished miserably in the flames, or in attempting to escape them.


For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west - It is worthy of remark that our Lord, in the most particular manner, points out the very march of the Roman army: they entered into Judea on the East, and carried on their conquest Westward, as if not only the extensiveness of the ruin, but the very route which the army would take, were intended in the comparison of the lightning issuing from the east, and shining to the west.

Clarke laid the whole chapter out quite wonderfully.

God used heathen armies to mete out his wrath.

Isaiah 10:5-6 KJV O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

[Esaias]

Not trying to nitpick, but why do preterists always use historicist commentators instead of preterist commentators? Just wondering.

[shazeep]

well, i've read the preterist commentary, and it does not seem to fit too well either imo.