Believers of Acts 2:38 down through history?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RachelRose

Great study.

I have always had UPCI preachers just brush off my questions about the gap by saying; "sure Miss, there always was Jesus Name people, we just never saw them."

Dang, so during the Dark Ages when the catholic church was shredding people for owning even one Bible verse the good guys were just hiding out? It seems wrong.

Well, there are different personality types. Some are hardwired to judge believe whatever you tell them. Others are not. It's just the way it is. EB and many others are hardwired to find it easy to believe whatever you tell them without any need of verification. They base their conclusions on the source. If they trust the source, they embrace it. If they don't... it can't possibly be true no matter who is demonstrating it or what evidence lays before them. It's dogma. It requires little thought. But at the same time, they provide some of the deepest contemplation of those things that they do embrace. Because, it's the only thing they know.

For example, EB's personality type can't even entertain the possibility of the existence of alien beings. lol He's been taught that the Scripture would have mentioned them, and since it doesn't (that his teachers were aware of), it is impossible for them to exist... in his mind.

Of course, the Bible didn't mention Native Americans or the New World either. Those of our personality type sees this and realizes that the doors of possibility remain as open for aliens as we see it was in retrospect for the native inhabitants and existence of the New World. For us, it would be the equivalent of Christopher Columbus coming ashore, only in this scenario, we're the Indians.

Other personality types can't embrace that kind of flexibility. They are essentially frozen in time, interpretation, and opinion.

And so, all one had to do is tell EB and those who think like him that there were always Jesus name people, and because they were trusted sources, and Scripture offered no contradiction, he can embrace it without question.

I will admit. It would sure be easier to be able to think like that. lol

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

For example, EB's personality type can't even entertain the possibility of the existence of alien beings. lol He's been taught that the Scripture would have mentioned them, and since it doesn't (that his teachers were aware of), it is impossible for them to exist... in his mind.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No Chris, its you who doesn't get it. Validation through evidence outside of the Bible?

Not outside of the Bible. Along side the Bible. You see, I see it like this... IF it is the truth, it will withstand scrutiny, questions, and study. And its claims will ultimately be verifiable, especially if they intersect with real world realities like culture and history.

From my perspective... you fear invalidation from considering history. I'm confident that if the interpretation of Scripture we hold is true, history will ultimately agree that it is no private interpretation and others will have had this interpretation among them down through the ages.

From your perspective... I need validation from history. You don't, because you're confident that the interpretation you hold is true regardless of any external evidence.

The problem is, your view insulates you from anything that would validate or contradict your chosen interpretation. Theologically, you're on your own little island. Nothing from the outside can shed any light on, or take away from, what you already know.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You're so like Jesus. I wanna be like you when I grow up. lol

[Esaias]

Aquila, what groups throughout history have believed what you believe?

I am, of course, pretending that whatever you claim to believe is what you actually believe, although your prior statements in the other thread show that there is no reason to believe anything you say, anyway.

[Aquila]

What I find interesting is that I found details that causes me to pause and consider agreeing with them... evidence that could validate what they claim to believe... and instead of rubbing it in a little (because such is to be expected) and seeing my desire for truth, and my integrity with even producing details that contradicted my own understanding... they're still mocking and arguing with me. LOL!!!

They're Heaven is locked up tight from everyone... even those who come to realize the truth they profess to teach. LOL

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What I find interesting is that I found details that causes me to pause and consider agreeing with them... evidence that could validate what they claim to believe... and instead of rubbing it in a little (because such is to be expected) and seeing my desire for truth, and my integrity with even producing details that contradicted my own understanding... they're still mocking and arguing with me. LOL!!!

They're Heaven is locked up tight from everyone... even those who come to realize the truth they profess to teach. LOL

Nope. Rather, you destroyed your own credibility awhile back. You, sir, are a special case.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Aquila, what groups throughout history have believed what you believe?

I am, of course, pretending that whatever you claim to believe is what you actually believe, although your prior statements in the other thread show that there is no reason to believe anything you say, anyway.

My belief, as previously stated, is that there couldn't be a gap of nearly 1800 years of no one saved, holding truth, having the light of the Gospel. I believe any Christian you find throughout history or who is alive today (from nearly any school of thought) would agree with that general belief.

But where my conviction was hard pressed was that history didn't appear to show anyone holding the Acts 2:38 understanding that we hold today. This would require God to move sovereignly, granting mercy on those few sincere souls who desired truth, but had no one to show them the way more perfectly, down through the ages.

What I'm saying in this thread is that it looks like I found evidence of individuals (and perhaps groups) who actually believed as we do, at least as it relates to there being one God and Jesus name baptism, down through history.

Essentially, EB provided the notion that such people existed... even if we don't find evidence. But his thought process ended there. I've been investigating possibilities to flesh out his notion. Why? Because if I find evidence that those individuals and bodies existed... I will have no issue with agreeing with EB that indeed there were Acts 2:38 believers down through history.

Yes, I was looking for data to refute my own conclusion. And, if what is in the first three posts I've posted on this thread is true... I'm encouraged. But, I'm the guy with an agenda. Of course, I'm seen in a bad light no matter what I say or do because they don't value inquiring minds. They only value mindless and obedient drones. lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Well, there are different personality types. Some are hardwired to judge believe whatever you tell them. Others are not. It's just the way it is. EB and many others are hardwired to find it easy to believe whatever you tell them without any need of verification.

Chris, let the record stand that you believe the Bible not to be historical evidence. Also again, why aren't you Eastern Orthodox? Verification for the earliest reformists Desiderius Erasmus, and John Wycliffe, went to scripture not historical data.

Originally Posted by Aquila

They base their conclusions on the source.

The Bible

Originally Posted by Aquila

If they trust the source, they embrace it.

The Bible

Originally Posted by Aquila

If they don't... it can't possibly be true no matter who is demonstrating it or what evidence lays before them.

Eastern and Western Roman Church History and Hindu History.

Bro, put your icon where your mouth is

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's dogma. It requires little thought. But at the same time, they provide some of the deepest contemplation of those things that they do embrace. Because, it's the only thing they know.

The Bible.

Chris remember when you wanted us to not believe the Bible alone, but our own personal experiences? At this point I would ask who hath bewitched you, but sadly you are as sober as a judge.

Originally Posted by Aquila

For example, EB's personality type can't even entertain the possibility of the existence of alien beings. lol He's been taught that the Scripture would have mentioned them, and since it doesn't (that his teachers were aware of), it is impossible for them to exist... in his mind.

Chris, why must you lie when you start losing the discussion? Please show a post where I posted that I don't believe in aliens due to no Bible evidence. i Don't believe in extraterrestrials because the possibility would be lower than zero. Carl Sagan called us the big blue marble, because our planet stands out from all others in our solar system. Why, because it teems with life. As you leave our solar system you enter the inhabitable zone and an asteroid belt which would destroy anything leaving or entering our system. The father you go out from our solar system the least the chances for life. Life may be on other planets, but its likeliness of being highly developed extremely low. People who claim they have been abducted by martians are liars, and story tellers. Michael Shermer has done a pretty good job debunking mostly all such stories of grays, greens, and Zoltron. So, Chris, you don't know what I believe, so let's continue with your doctrine of No Bible Needed for Salvation.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Of course, the Bible didn't mention Native Americans or the New World either. Those of our personality type sees this and realizes that the doors of possibility remain as open for aliens as we see it was in retrospect for the native inhabitants and existence of the New World. For us, it would be the equivalent of Christopher Columbus coming ashore, only in this scenario, we're the Indians.

But on the flip side of this emotional sleigh ride, did God sovereignty fail? How long did it take explorers "historically" speaking to reach the "new" world? Chris, can you answer how Chief Big Humming Bird was saved?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Other personality types can't embrace that kind of flexibility. They are essentially frozen in time, interpretation, and opinion.

Where did Paul and Jesus teach this "flexibility?

Oh, I know, Bible not allowed. Sad. Dude, this is sad.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And so, all one had to do is tell EB and those who think like him that there were always Jesus name people, and because they were trusted sources, and Scripture offered no contradiction, he can embrace it without question.

I will admit. It would sure be easier to be able to think like that. lol

Chris, this is why I don't accept your apologies.

Good luck with that, seriously, good luck, I hope you get it together.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Chris, let the record stand that you believe the Bible not to be historical evidence. Also again, why aren't you Eastern Orthodox? Verification for the earliest reformists Desiderius Erasmus, and John Wycliffe, went to scripture not historical data.



The Bible



The Bible



Eastern and Western Roman Church History and Hindu History.

Bro, put your icon where your mouth is




The Bible.

Chris remember when you wanted us to not believe the Bible alone, but our own personal experiences? At this point I would ask who hath bewitched you, but sadly you are as sober as a judge.




Chris, why must you lie when you start losing the discussion? Please show a post where I posted that I don't believe in aliens due to no Bible evidence. i Don't believe in extraterrestrials because the possibility would be lower than zero. Carl Sagan called us the big blue marble, because our planet stands out from all others in our solar system. Why, because it teems with life. As you leave our solar system you enter the inhabitable zone and an asteroid belt which would destroy anything leaving or entering our system. The father you go out from our solar system the least the chances for life. Life may be on other planets, but its likeliness of being highly developed extremely low. People who claim they have been abducted by martians are liars, and story tellers. Michael Shermer has done a pretty good job debunking mostly all such stories of grays, greens, and Zoltron. So, Chris, you don't know what I believe, so let's continue with your doctrine of No Bible Needed for Salvation.



But on the flip side of this emotional sleigh ride, did God sovereignty fail? How long did it take explorers "historically" speaking to reach the "new" world? Chris, can you answer how Chief Big Humming Bird was saved?




Where did Paul and Jesus teach this "flexibility?

Oh, I know, Bible not allowed. Sad. Dude, this is sad.



Chris, this is why I don't accept your apologies.

Good luck with that, seriously, good luck, I hope you get it together.

Really? You take yourself way to seriously.