Gino Jennings On Soul Sleep

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Your conclusion does not follow from what you wrote.

He apparently is trying to split the Spirit and the Soul, which I don't believe anyone would disagree with, although I believe only God knows where one ends and the other begins. As why the Word of God "pierces even to the division of the Soul and the Spirit. Now, the rest I don't know how he is claiming this disproves soul sleep especially with the scripture from Acts that comes from the Psalms. I guess he's saying since they can be separated the body, soul, and spirit they are all immortal?

But im more confused by the explaination then anything else. Maybe he could explain this all more in depth.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Your conclusion does not follow from what you wrote.

If the soul of Jesus did not sleep, why would ours? Isn't Jesus our perfect example?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Ecclesiastes written by the wisest man who ever lived or will live, for God said there will never be another man wiser than Solomon.

Ecclesiastes 3:12 "behold, I have done according to your words; see, I have given you a wise and understanding heart, so that there has not been anyone like you before you, nor shall any like you arise after you."

That's a great blessing and honor given to Solomon!

But it seems that one who is greater than Solomon is not esteemed higher than him, nor His word. Sad that, but I'm not surprised because even many who walked with Jesus, witnessed His miracles heard His words directly from the Father on the throne in Heaven, did not believe in Him!

The carnal mind will never understand the things of the Spirit!

Indeed the spirit does go back to God who gave it. Gino did not do a good job explaining the difference between the soul and spirit. There IS a difference!

It's not easy to explain, nor are there many scriptures to prove the truth of the matter, but I believe there only needs to be one scripture given for the truth to be known and accepted. But that's me! lol

You do believe 2nd Timothy 3:16 right?

How about Hebrews 4:12-13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account."

I'm sure that we all understand from this text that it's talking about Jesus, the LIVING WORD right? And not the written text of scripture? Can the scripture divide soul and spirit, or discern the thoughts and intents of the heart?

Or how about when Jesus gave up His spirit, but then the scriptures tells us in Acts 2 that death had it's hold on Him.

Luke 23:46

"And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last."

We have read Acts 2 countless times, but have we really understood the truth of the text that's written there? It's obvious many have not!

Peter, an apostle of Jesus, having walked with the Lord before and after His resurrection stood up and spoke right after being baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire said:

Acts 2:22-28

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. For David says concerning Him: ‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’

The text clearly says that God raised up Jesus from the dead, loosing Him from the PAINS of Death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. Then Peter quotes David who had a prophetic gift, saying that the SOUL of Jesus would not be left in Hades, but didn't Jesus commit His spirit to the Father? So how then could His soul be in Hades held by Death?

Because there IS a difference between the body(flesh), soul and spirit!

Peter continues to quote David who foresaw the resurrection of Christ.

Acts 2:31

"he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption."

His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His body decompose! A clear distinction between the body and the soul here. At least for me it is!

There is no soul sleep and I pray that it doesn't take death on this earth and the afterlife for people to understand the truth!

Sorry. The living word is Jesus. And the written word is also living Only with the Spirit can be understood because by the Spirit is written .
As for spirit and soul. Yes the written living word can separate your spirit from your soul In the Bible Soul is used also as "carnal" fleshy! Search the word "psychi" that means soul and see that is used as flash in the new testament! You know why ?
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
sensual also means "he who fallows his SOUL.
So resurrection is not when a spirit goes to heaven ,but when the spirit comes back to the body and soul.
Your bodu goes back to the dust -
Your soul (before Christ for sure) goes to Ades (ades is a place translated hell in English but is not hell!there was the soul of the reach man burned and suferd and the soul of Lazarus with Abraham too "23 And in hell(Ades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.")
Your spirit is what goes back to God (i dont know to explain it but thisa is what the bible says )Now some say that after Resurrection all souls goes to God,but i dont know if is like that
So yes the soul waits in the place of dead until the judgement and the spirit goes to God while your body is rotten in the grave. Only at Resurrection the three be one again and alive.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

If the soul of Jesus did not sleep, why would ours? Isn't Jesus our perfect example?

What makes you think His soul did not "sleep"? What exactly do you think "soul sleep" is?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What makes you think His soul did not "sleep"? What exactly do you think "soul sleep" is?

Good morning my brother! how are you?
i know you know some Greek words , so explain to him (if he ask) what the soul means and that is used everywhere in the bible as bad as flesh.
It is translated "flesh" but mean "he who fallows his soul" as opposite to "he who fallows the Spirit" spiritual vs soulish (aka sensual)
(now for the other thing , Jesus said "in your habds i give my spirit" and his soul went to Hades(the place for the dead ,underworld,that is translated hell.)
you see that Abraham and Lazarus are in hte same place but in different than the reach man . They are all at Hades(place of dead souls) until judgement but separate the just from the unjust. Now some say that afgter Jesus went there that all the souls of just saints insteact of the place at Hades goes in God.But they are liveing (or sleeping ) there until resurrection , or until the body and the soul with the spirit comes back to life.

But also i realize i dont exactly understand what is the point our brother wants to make with that post!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

Good morning my brother! how are you?

Καλά. Εσu? I am just reading up on what is happening in France with the protests. Do you have any idea what is going on there?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

If the soul of Jesus did not sleep, why would ours? Isn't Jesus our perfect example?

Did Jesus "sleep" in death?

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

ALMOST all misunderstanding of this topic is related to this error. When immortal soul believers read verses like these, mentally they read it like this:

But now is CHRISTS BODY risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them DEAD BODIES that slept. For since by man came the DEATH OF THE BODY by man came also the resurrection of THE DEAD BODY.

When God is trying to teach them about death and resurrection they INSERT mentally that he is ONLY talking about death of the body. This is because their doctrine is that THE PERSON never dies. Only the body.

Therefore many verses where the Spirit is actually teaching us truth, they pervert by inserting their own doctrine into the text.

Thats how they can read the entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, the place where there is more teaching about death and resurrection than anywhere else, like 50 some verses but ALL THEY SEE is the whole chapter ONLY speaks of the resurrection OF THE BODY.

Therefore the truth God is actually trying to teach bounces off of them.

[Michael The Disciple]

Ecclesiastes written by the wisest man who ever lived or will live, for God said there will never be another man wiser than Solomon.

Ecclesiastes 3:12 "behold, I have done according to your words; see, I have given you a wise and understanding heart, so that there has not been anyone like you before you, nor shall any like you arise after you."

That's a great blessing and honor given to Solomon!

But it seems that one who is greater than Solomon is not esteemed higher than him, nor His word. Sad that, but I'm not surprised because even many who walked with Jesus, witnessed His miracles heard His words directly from the Father on the throne in Heaven, did not believe in Him!

The carnal mind will never understand the things of the Spirit!

If Solomon were the wisest man that ever lived would Jesus then come and contradict what he taught?

Ecc 9:10

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The grave here is SHEOL in the Hebrew or HADES in the Greek. When one dies they go there. Nothing happens there. There is no knowledge or wisdom there. All are unconcious there until they AWAKE unto judgment.

Either Jesus agreed with Solomon or Solomon was not so wise after all.

[Michael The Disciple]

Indeed the spirit does go back to God who gave it. Gino did not do a good job explaining the difference between the soul and spirit. There IS a difference!

Problem is that same verse that teaches the spirit goes back to God that gave it is teaching the spirits of ALL........not just the righteous goes back to God.

Ecc 12:5-7

5Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Solomon makes no difference between the righteous and the wicked. God grants us life and takes it back. All of us.

Neither does the verse say anything about our spirits rejoicing in Heavens eternal life. No. Just that it returns to God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Acts 2:22-28

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

What is Peter preaching about? The fact that a man/person Jesus was slain. That this same one that was slain was raised up from death. The point is NOT......that a body was slain and resurrected but a PERSON.

Note the words "he" and "him" and "whom". Peter speaks of the MAN Jesus who died and rose again not merely his body, as it were a distinct person from his soul.

For David says concerning Him: ‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’

Davids gift was here showing what CHRIST HIMSELF said. He said his flesh would rest in hope BECAUSE God would not leave his soul in SHEOL.

His soul was his person. His person was in Sheol. The place Solomon said there was nothing going on. No work, device, wisdom, or knowledge.

This is what immortal soul teaching confuses and obscures.

The PERSON Jesus had to die including his soul. If Jesus SOUL did not die it would have been a sure sign he was a false Messiah.

It was prophesied of the true Messiah, the lamb of God:

Isaiah 53:10-12

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

So Jesus being the true Messiah fulfilled the prophecy. His soul died.

Man is a soul.

Gen. 2:7

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When man dies his soul dies. When God breathed into his nostrils MAN became a living soul.