Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

I just recently had double surgeries at the same time, a "lung wedge" and two nodules removed from my stomach wall at M.D. Anderson in Houston and they sent me home with a bag of drugs, three were narcotic pain pills. I didn't take any of them because i'm scared to death of addictions. When I saw both surgeons a month later, when asked about pain management, I told them that I hadn't taken any of the narcotics, but had taken some Tylenol, the lung surgeon said "you're a tough guy" and i told him no sir I'm just scared of narcotic drugs.

The doctors most of the time mean well, but abuse in others that I know has caused me to be extra cautious.

If and when I pass from this world, I want to be in my right mind and calling on the Lord Jesus.

I don't judge you one bit.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Eh, that's your opinion. There are studies that disagree. As far as hallucinogenics, studies are showing that those with terminal conditions who suffer from excessive anxiety benefit from "shrooms". Apparently after taking "shrooms" subjects had a sense of resolution and peace about their impending death and return to their spiritual roots. Scientists are still researching the biochemical nature of this shift in their mental state.

While the source of emotion is still beyond the scope of science, we do know that emotions are effected by various biochemical processes in the brain.

Jesus is a healer. But Jesus doesn't heal everyone all the time. Else, we'd never see believers in the hospital, taking chemo, or needing any form of treatments for things such as diabetes, etc. If Jesus healed 100% of the time, we'd put hospitals out of business.

Amen. But let's not deny that both natural and synthetic substances have been used to heal what Jesus chooses not to miraculously heal.

Superstition.

If God never intended cannabis to be used medicinally, why did God design the endocannabinoid system to specifically respond to cannabinoids found in cannabis?

Balms, salves, herbs, teas, and even incense, were used medicinally and therapeutically in biblical times. Those who understood how to make such things were known as apothecaries. No where does the Bible condemn their use unless associated with pagan deities and pagan worship.

In Genesis we read,

Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Every grass, herb, and tree was created by God, and God saw that it was good. Not a single plant was deemed as being sinful.

We also read,

Genesis 1:29
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Here, God gives every plant upon all the face of the earth for man's consumption. No exceptions.

Now, this doesn't mean that various plants, or plant based substances, shouldn't be handled cautiously or judiciously. In addition, a plant shouldn't be considered sinful just because we don't currently know the beneficial purpose of the given plant or substance. Nor should it be considered sinful merely because we don't fully understand its effects. What is necessary is inquiry, examination, study, and research. There is a good possibility that as we speak, tomorrow's cure for cancer is currently residing in a prohibited plant or substance. Think of the untold numbers who have suffered and died because research on the medicinal qualities of a given substance was halted due to superstition. So, in my opinion, an open mind is necessary if we are to take God seriously about His creating plant life and finding it, good.

This also doesn't mean that self-control isn't necessary. We know that wine comes from fermented grapes. We know that wine was used to cleanse wounds, to ease the fears and pain of the dying, as a drink offering, and as an intoxicant to bring joy to the hearts of men in celebrations such as feast days and weddings. However, allowing one's life to slip into a state of drunkenness is indeed a sin.

The Bible calls for moderation concerning wine and strong drink. And so this principle would apply to any other intoxicant. Like wine, cannabis has been shown to have medicinal use. For example, it relieves symptoms relating to AIDS, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, Crohn’s disease, epilepsy or another seizure disorder, fibromyalgia, glaucoma, hepatitis C, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, pain that is either chronic and severe or intractable, Parkinson’s disease, positive status for HIV, PTSD, sickle cell anemia, spinal cord disease or injury, Tourette’s syndrome, traumatic brain injury, ulcerative colitis, or many others. And again, like wine, it has been used as an intoxicant.

Interestingly, one cannot overdose on cannabis. And so, it's safer than wine or strong drink. Also, aside from the "high" one gets upon initially taking cannabis in some forms, there have not yet been any significant negative side effects found (which is common in many powerful prescription medications).

So, I see room for disagreement, and room to allow individual conviction to govern the use of cannabis as it relates to medicine and health.

The superstitious paranoia about cannabis is actually more prevalent than the "paranoia" cannabis is often accused of producing. Also, when dealing with cannabis, there are many different strains of Sativa and Indica. If one strain produces an undesirable effect, another might be more fitting. In states where it is legal medical doctors and specialists in cannabis can assist any individual looking for the strain of cannabis that is right for themselves and their condition. No, cannabis isn't for everyone. But it has appeared to help thousands of not millions of people world wide (considering other nations wherein medical cannabis is legal).

Superstition is a terrible thing. It is fed by fear and ignorance. Many don't know it but there was a period of about 300 years wherein coffee was deemed an illegal substance. In Islamic countries the stimulating effect was seen as intoxicating and it was condemned. Eventually, this prohibition was lifted as coffee use spread in underground coffee shops. In Europe, Popes and kings condemned it as the "devil's drink" and it faced additional prohibition. Fake science was also employed to slander the bean. Eventually, however, coffee began being consumed in secret coffee shops and penny shops throughout Europe. Periodicals on the social dangers of coffee were common place. Women in England even wrote a periodical condemning coffee, blaming it for the destruction of families. People were arrested, killed, and even exiled over the sale and proliferation of coffee. However, as it became more prevalent throughout European society, royalty, and even clergy began drinking it. Soon, the prohibitions were lifted and the free sale and consumption of coffee flourished.

Does this brief history of coffee sound familiar? Of course it does. Due to men's ignorance and superstition we're doomed to repeat history over and over again in new contexts. I predict that in 30 to 40 years cannabis will have been legalized long enough that most Americans will look back at all the misinformation, incarceration, bloodshed, and billions of dollars spent to combat it... and think... "All of that over this plant?"

So, let's move beyond our fears and superstitions and allow open research and inquiry on cannabis. It's use in cancer research is actually astounding some scientists. Who knows... if we can get beyond the fear and ignorance regarding this, we might discover the cure for cancer.

So much bad information and psuedo-science in the above that it is laughable.
Or sad, as A represents a large portion of the thinking of society, today.
Now, go smoke some poison ivy and tell me about the trip you took.

[n david]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Big Pharma is a racket...nuff said.

Medical marijuana is becoming just as bad a racket...

It's not covered by insurance, so the cost is coming directly out of pocket. It's not cheap. Per an article I read, studies showed the "optimal" dosage is 21 grams. I checked prices (MM is legal in Arizona) for just one dose, it would be between $300-$425 just for the weed. That's not including the required "medical marijuana recommendation" which costs up to $200. Then you're having to pay for paper or pipes.

I agree Big Pharma is a racket, but Big Weed is not much better.

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't judge you one bit.

Well, thank you.

I have personally witnessed way too many folks sitting on pews that were off in "Lala Land" and could not be moved by Holy Ghost singing or preaching.

To me, that's DANGEROUS!

SOME TIMES...FEAR/ANXIETY can be a tool of the Holy Ghost in moving a person from a cold, lukewarm or backsliden condition.

Psalms 2:11.. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Philippians 2:12.. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 11:7.. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Jude 1:23.. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

So much bad information and psuedo-science in the above that it is laughable.
Or sad, as A represents a large portion of the thinking of society, today.

Hmmm...

60 Peer-Reviewed Studies on Medical Marijuana
Medical Studies Involving Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts (1990 - 2014)

https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/...ourceID=000884

Now, go smoke some poison ivy and tell me about the trip you took.

As I said in my post:

Now, this doesn't mean that various plants, or plant based substances, shouldn't be handled cautiously or judiciously.

Of course, this caused me to wonder... is there a medicinal use for poison ivy? I found a bit of information. The following as a good read...

Using Poison Ivy as a Medicine
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry...b_6149354.html

[Old Paths]

Gonna be kinda hard for the preacher to preach against smoking dope, when he's taking "medical Mary Jane" himself.


Hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Medical marijuana is becoming just as bad a racket...

It's not covered by insurance, so the cost is coming directly out of pocket. It's not cheap. Per an article I read, studies showed the "optimal" dosage is 21 grams. I checked prices (MM is legal in Arizona) for just one dose, it would be between $300-$425 just for the weed. That's not including the required "medical marijuana recommendation" which costs up to $200. Then you're having to pay for paper or pipes.

I agree Big Pharma is a racket, but Big Weed is not much better.

When compared to the cost of prescription meds (if coming out of pocket), and their side effects, it's a small price to pay. As a lot of vets will tell you, just compared to the side effects of prescription meds, it's a small price to pay. But a lot of vets look at it like start up costs... and grow their own.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

Well, thank you.

I have personally witnessed way too many folks sitting on pews that were off in "Lala Land" and could not be moved by Holy Ghost singing or preaching.

To me, that's DANGEROUS!

SOME TIMES...FEAR/ANXIETY can be a tool of the Holy Ghost in moving a person from a cold, lukewarm or backsliden condition.

Psalms 2:11.. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Philippians 2:12.. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 11:7.. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Jude 1:23.. And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

That would bother me. I don't believe anyone should go to church drugged up on any medication or substance. Sure, take it before bed, or when you get home from church. I didn't like sitting in church after taking Delsym cough syrup (leaves me "fuzzy", kinda numb, and groggy).

But that's just me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

I just recently had double surgeries at the same time, a "lung wedge" and two nodules removed from my stomach wall at M.D. Anderson in Houston and they sent me home with a bag of drugs, three were narcotic pain pills. I didn't take any of them because i'm scared to death of addictions. When I saw both surgeons a month later, when asked about pain management, I told them that I hadn't taken any of the narcotics, but had taken some Tylenol, the lung surgeon said "you're a tough guy" and i told him no sir I'm just scared of narcotic drugs.

The doctors most of the time mean well, but abuse in others that I know has caused me to be extra cautious.

If and when I pass from this world, I want to be in my right mind and calling on the Lord Jesus.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

Gonna be kinda hard for the preacher to preach against smoking dope, when he's taking "medical Mary Jane" himself.


Hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Very good point.

Therefore if the "preacher" is taking legal medical marijuana, what message is that sending to the young people? Sooner or later marijuana will be legalized for recreational use.

Baby can't sleep through the night? No problem, couple of tokes of the dube puts infant in a mellow mood? Good God from Zion! Help us.