That's not Preaching!!

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You don't see those things because they would be incorrect uses of the terms. As I said each focuses on a particular aspect or characteristic of "speaking the Word". If you proclaim the kingdom of God is at hand did you not teach the hearers some information about the kingdom and its nearness?

If you teach thou shalt not murder did you not just proclaim the Word of God on the subject?

How do you think Moses was preached in the synagogues? By fiery rabbis shouting that people ought to get Moses down in their souls? Or by teaching the Law, including "thou shalt not murder"?

It could be proclaiming truth in general, but it could also refer to the announcing to make proselytes. I clearly see that early church had in their head two different words with two different purposes, or aspects of the speaking as you said. They can definitely be done at the same location with the same crowd, if the crowd is mixed.

I am trying to clarify them as over time they have been redefined, as several other things in our current culture. I don't mind the redefinition of meanings as language is language, but they need to be clarified so when people read the Scripture they truly understand it.

Also, I see a lot of romanticism with preaching, and excessive high bar (e.g., some said you need 21h for one 45min sermon) that only full-time professional ministers can achieve to feed a congregation twice weekly. I think there is bias, and misleading arguments, that I'm questioning. See my previous post as an example.

I don't think you are facing those issues because you are in house church where the dynamic is totally different, so you may have a hard time understanding the relevance of my point. BTW, you made really good points in the previous two posts to the one I am quoting.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Well done, good and faithful servant.

About the connection to evangelism and preaching in 2 Timothy, note, too, the reference to those who refuse to endure sound doctrine. Because they won't listen to healthy teaching, they forfeit their souls and become lost, and need once again to hear the Gospel preached.

I have grown weary of much of so-called "Pentecostal PREACHING." All we hear about is who the best "preacher" is with little emphasis on teaching people how to be students of the word. The doctrinal ignorance of people that have been Pentecostal for much of their life is appalling. But hey, as long as the theatrics are good, we'll keep calling it "Pentecostal."

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have grown weary of much of so-called "Pentecostal PREACHING." All we hear about is who the best "preacher" is with little emphasis on teaching people how to be students of the word. The doctrinal ignorance of people that have been Pentecostal for much of their life is appalling. But hey, as long as the theatrics are good, we'll keep calling it "Pentecostal."

Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have grown weary of much of so-called "Pentecostal PREACHING." All we hear about is who the best "preacher" is with little emphasis on teaching people how to be students of the word. The doctrinal ignorance of people that have been Pentecostal for much of their life is appalling. But hey, as long as the theatrics are good, we'll keep calling it "Pentecostal."

Thats it. And while some of it can feed baby Christians most of it leaves mature saints starving.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.

And when the theatrical preaching gets stale some turn to magic for entertainment. A downward spiral.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

It could be proclaiming truth in general, but it could also refer to the announcing to make proselytes. I clearly see that early church had in their head two different words with two different purposes, or aspects of the speaking as you said. They can definitely be done at the same location with the same crowd, if the crowd is mixed.

I am trying to clarify them as over time they have been redefined, as several other things in our current culture. I don't mind the redefinition of meanings as language is language, but they need to be clarified so when people read the Scripture they truly understand it.

Also, I see a lot of romanticism with preaching, and excessive high bar (e.g., some said you need 21h for one 45min sermon) that only full-time professional ministers can achieve to feed a congregation twice weekly. I think there is bias, and misleading arguments, that I'm questioning. See my previous post as an example.

I don't think you are facing those issues because you are in house church where the dynamic is totally different, so you may have a hard time understanding the relevance of my point. BTW, you made really good points in the previous two posts to the one I am quoting.

I think too many feel they need to "craft a sermon" rather than speak from the heart as the Spirit leads. I am reminded of this:

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 KJV
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: [5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Theatrics are found wherever church is otherwise boring. Liturgy and wash, rinse, repeat style meetings suck the life out of saints. So, the last chance to liven things up is when it's time to "preach". It's a one-trick pony kind of show.

Part of the problem is mainstream Pentecostal meetings are often no longer Pentecostal. The pew sitters' only contribution is often to clap when expected, stand, sit, amen, shout, and jump, on cue, and put money in the plate. As a result, the platformers become performers, putting on a show, and the pew sitters come to expect a good event. They want their money's worth, so the pressure is on to provide the "best music" and the "best worship experience" and the "best preaching" along with auxillary services like a good women's meeting, a good men's fellowship, and fun and games and sports for the kids, something for the seniors, the singles, the 20 somethings, 30 somethings, etc etc.

Pentecost gets programmed right out of the meeting in many cases.

[Esaias]

A genuine Pentecostal meeting will usually only have as much Holy Ghost as each person brings to the meeting, though...

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Part of the problem is mainstream Pentecostal meetings are often no longer Pentecostal. The pew sitters' only contribution is often to clap when expected, stand, sit, amen, shout, and jump, on cue, and put money in the plate. As a result, the platformers become performers, putting on a show, and the pew sitters come to expect a good event. They want their money's worth, so the pressure is on to provide the "best music" and the "best worship experience" and the "best preaching" along with auxillary services like a good women's meeting, a good men's fellowship, and fun and games and sports for the kids, something for the seniors, the singles, the 20 somethings, 30 somethings, etc etc.

Pentecost gets programmed right out of the meeting in many cases.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And when the theatrical preaching gets stale some turn to magic for entertainment. A downward spiral.

Stupid.