What's your view on Hell?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Lol, I wasn't actually replying to you with the second part of the post. I was just making the point that there is more important content in the rest of that passage, and then I went on to show a wrong possible interpretation about that story. Just a thought that came to my mind last night while I was half asleep

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It’s like this;


[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

I have a question, how often in a parable does Jesus use names?

Luke 15:11 KJV
[11] And he said, A certain man had two sons:

No specific name given

Matthew 13:3 KJV
[3] And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

Again, no specific name.

Yet in the “parable” in question he (Jesus) mentions Abraham and Lazarus. Is Lazarus the one whom Jesus raised from the dead???

Maybe TJJJ could shine a light on this “parable”.

[Amanah]

Parables are teaching tools, not literal.
Once dead you're dead until Rev 20 when the just are resurrected to eternal life and the unjust are resurrected to judgement and destruction.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Share your view on hell please.

Simple:

Do whatever the Father commands you to do so that you avoid it at all costs.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Simple:

Do whatever the Father commands you to do so that you avoid it at all costs.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: And with all thy getting get understanding.
Proverbs 4:7 KJV

https://bible.com/bible/1/pro.4.7.KJV

[Esaias]

Psalm 37

1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. 2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. 3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. 4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. 5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. 6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday. 7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. 8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. 9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. 10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. 11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. 12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. 13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming. 14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. 15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken. 16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked. 17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. 18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. 19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The psalm speaks of the future of the wicked, that they will be no more, and will perish, and consume away. They will not be found. This takes place at the judgment, because even though wicked people die in this life, one can always find more wicked men still among the living. But a day is coming in which every deed of every person will be judged, and the wicked will be destroyed and "be no more".

Ecclesiastes showed that judgment must take place outside of the grave, and therefore there must be a resurrection. The resurrection thus is necessary for the judgment. The saints, in Christ, will be found in righteousness because they are in Him, who is Himself their righteousness. They will experience a resurrection into life. The wicked will also rise from the grave, and will be judged as well. But not being found in Christ, they will be judged for their wickedness, and will perish.

Thus, there is a resurrection to life, and a resurrection to damnation. The wicked will not live forever, but will be "consumed like fat" burning away into smoke. That is, they will be destroyed and there will simply be no more wicked.

Jesus affirmed this in that most famous verse, John 3:16, when He said the believers "should not perish, but have everlasting life." The unbelievers would "perish", that is, they would be consumed and would be no more.

He also affirmed the dual resurrection in John ch 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It should be noted that those who will participate in either the resurrection of life, or the resurrection of damnation, are those who are in the graves. They themselves are said to be in the graves when this happens, not just those " whose bodies" are in the graves.

Isaiah also speaks of the fate of the wicked:

Isaiah 33

14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; 16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. 17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

The prophet asks, "Who shall dwell with the devouring fire, and everlasting burnings?" Many people believe the wicked will dwell or live forever with the devouring fire and everlasting burnings in hell. But the Scripture says explicitly it is the righteous who shall dwell with the devouring fire and everlasting burnings! How can this be?

It is because the righteous shall live forever, whereas the wicked shall be consumed (burnt up) and will be no more. The devouring fire is the consuming fire, which is GOD HIMSELF:

Deuteronomy 4

24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Hebrews 12

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

God Himself is the consuming fire who, in His judgment, destroys the wicked. The righteous, however, live forever with Him. This is illustrated in symbolic form in the Revelation:

Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death and hell (Hades, the grave) delivered up the dead who were then judged. This means people coming back to life, out of the grave, resurrection. Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire, which is the SECOND death. And those not in the Book of Life are likewise cast unto the lake of fire.

Death and Hades, the grave, are abolished and death is destroyed, to be no more. As are the wicked. It is called the "second death" because it is a death that occurs after judgment. The second death has no power over the saints (Rev 20:6), that is, the fire cannot harm them, they are not appointed to destruction. They have eternal life, and shall live forever with God. But the wicked do not have eternal life, they are utterly destroyed by the righteous and holy judgment of God.

[Amanah]

Exactly Brother Esaias!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Exactly Brother Esaias!

[Esaias]

Lazarus in the parable is Lazarus, Mary and Martha's brother. (Very likely he is also known as Simon the leper.)

The rich man is the high priest Caiaphas, who had five brothers-in-law who also previously served as priests.

None of them would get right with God even if Lazarus rose from the dead. When Lazarus did in fact rise from the dead, Caiaphas and the "chief priests" sought to have him (Lazarus) killed to stop the spread of his testimony, which was causing people to flock to Jesus.

...

I believe the two Lazaruses are the same person, the connection to coming back from the dead, the rich man's brothers not believing even if Lazarus came back from the dead, and the historical events concerning Lazarus coming back from the dead and the rulers, priests, etc still not believing and getting right with God... it all fits.

Plus, there is a strong indication Simon the Leper was an epithet (other name) for Lazarus, and Lazarus in the story was a leper as well.

On the other hand, if this is a literal account of historical events, it creates insurmountable contradictions with the rest of Scripture, especially those areas of the Bible containing plain, unambiguous doctrinal teaching. Additionally, everyone who says it is a literal history don't actually take it that way, they do not believe in sitting in Abraham's lap literally, or literal flames, literal communication between the tormented and the refreshed, literal physical body parts (eyes, tongue, finger, etc), physical chasms, etc etc etc. So, even though people often claim it is a literal historical account, they turn right around and deny its literalness!

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Lazarus in the parable is Lazarus, Mary and Martha's brother. (Very likely he is also known as Simon the leper.)

The rich man is the high priest Caiaphas, who had five brothers-in-law who also previously served as priests.

None of them would get right with God even if Lazarus rose from the dead. When Lazarus did in fact rise from the dead, Caiaphas and the "chief priests" sought to have him (Lazarus) killed to stop the spread of his testimony, which was causing people to flock to Jesus.

...

I believe the two Lazaruses are the same person, the connection to coming back from the dead, the rich man's brothers not believing even if Lazarus came back from the dead, and the historical events concerning Lazarus coming back from the dead and the rulers, priests, etc still not believing and getting right with God... it all fits.

Plus, there is a strong indication Simon the Leper was an epithet (other name) for Lazarus, and Lazarus in the story was a leper as well.

On the other hand, if this is a literal account of historical events, it creates insurmountable contradictions with the rest of Scripture, especially those areas of the Bible containing plain, unambiguous doctrinal teaching. Additionally, everyone who says it is a literal history don't actually take it that way, they do not believe in sitting in Abraham's lap literally, or literal flames, literal communication between the tormented and the refreshed, literal physical body parts (eyes, tongue, finger, etc), physical chasms, etc etc etc. So, even though people often claim it is a literal historical account, they turn right around and deny its literalness!

You have good points.

A few things,

* The "devouring fire" or "everlasting fire" is not referring to the lake of fire, but in your reasoning you are connecting them. Who can live with the everlasting fire? asks the sinners in Zion and the godless ones (see the sentences right before in that verse). This is definitely poetry in the prophecy. If that refers to the lake of fire then you say the righteous, the one that can, is going to be walking around in the lake of fire without getting consumed? Isn't the just going to be in peace in the presence of God? The righteous do not dwell in the lake of fire. Those descriptions are definitely referring to God himself, but as the Mighty Judge pouring his wrath on the land of Zion.


* Regarding Lazarus, if I understand correctly, you are saying the story of Lazarus told by Jesus was not real to life. Can you show another parable of Jesus that is based on elements that are not real to life? It would be such an uncommon thing.

* "sleep" describing the dead could be simply an euphemism, and not a theological concept. The Bible writers used euphemisms.

John 11:11-14 (NKJV) 11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."
12 Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well." 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.

Could you please also explain these verses:

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV) 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV) 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 23:43 (NKJV) 43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."