Since the heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?

[Rico]

The thread reminded me of someone I once knew. His name is Joe. Joe was the kind of person who went about conning any church willing to listen to whatever said story he could tell. He would invent a story, tell it to a church pastor, and then proceed to con the church out of as much money as he could. Joe pulled his scam on several of the apostolic churches in the area where I once lived.

As fate would have it, the Lord finally got a hold on Joe and he repented with tears and the whole nine yards. His repenting happened at the church I was attending, so this is where he started his true walk with the Lord. He came to me a few months after his conversion (we had become friends) upset because no one would believe he had really changed. His reputation as a church scammer had preceeded him and he just could not seem to overcome it. He said to me, "Rico, I don't understand why no one will believe that I have repented. The Lord knows my heart is pure and that I have truly repented."

I explained to him that people do not have the same abilities that God has. God can look right into our core and tell if we are sincere. People do not have that ability. It would take us more time to see who he had become on the inside. I told him he just needed to be patient, because eventually who he had become on the inside would be visible on the outside. It was only natural for people to be skeptical of him because, afterall, his target for scams had always been churches, and he had scammed some of the apostolic churches in the area and people knew about it. He understood what I was saying to him, but he was still very disappointed. He wanted everyone to see the new man, not the old man.

I said all that to say this: We need to be careful in our perceptions of the people around us. We may feel we are right on target with someone and not have the ability to see who a person really is. My suggestion would be for us to be cautiously optimistic with people, especially new converts. It may take months, or even years, for them to completely shed the after effects of who they were prior to conversion. We need to use wisdom and Godly discernment. This is one reason why we need mature saints in our churches who have exercised their spiritual senses.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Rico

The thread reminded me of someone I once knew. His name is Joe. Joe was the kind of person who went about conning any church willing to listen to whatever said story he could tell. He would invent a story, tell it to a church pastor, and then proceed to con the church out of as much money as he could. Joe pulled his scam on several of the apostolic churches in the area where I once lived.

As fate would have it, the Lord finally got a hold on Joe and he repented with tears and the whole nine yards. His repenting happened at the church I was attending, so this is where he started his true walk with the Lord. He came to me a few months after his conversion (we had become friends) upset because no one would believe he had really changed. His reputation as a church scammer had preceeded him and he just could not seem to overcome it. He said to me, "Rico, I don't understand why no one will believe that I have repented. The Lord knows my heart is pure and that I have truly repented."

I explained to him that people do not have the same abilities that God has. God can look right into our core and tell if we are sincere. People do not have that ability. It would take us more time to see who he had become on the inside. I told him he just needed to be patient, because eventually who he had become on the inside would be visible on the outside. It was only natural for people to be skeptical of him because, afterall, his target for scams had always been churches, and he had scammed some of the apostolic churches in the area and people knew about it. He understood what I was saying to him, but he was still very disappointed. He wanted everyone to see the new man, not the old man.

I said all that to say this: We need to be careful in our perceptions of the people around us. We may feel we are right on target with someone and not have the ability to see who a person really is. My suggestion would be for us to be cautiously optimistic with people, especially new converts. It may take months, or even years, for them to completely shed the after effects of who they were prior to conversion. We need to use wisdom and Godly discernment. This is one reason why we need mature saints in our churches who have exercised their spiritual senses.

Great post and example you gave there Rico.

People make their judgments and sometimes they're right. But sometimes they're wrong too, and if they're wrong so much harm can be done to a person in the meantime.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rico

The thread reminded me of someone I once knew. His name is Joe. Joe was the kind of person who went about conning any church willing to listen to whatever said story he could tell. He would invent a story, tell it to a church pastor, and then proceed to con the church out of as much money as he could. Joe pulled his scam on several of the apostolic churches in the area where I once lived.

As fate would have it, the Lord finally got a hold on Joe and he repented with tears and the whole nine yards. His repenting happened at the church I was attending, so this is where he started his true walk with the Lord. He came to me a few months after his conversion (we had become friends) upset because no one would believe he had really changed. His reputation as a church scammer had preceeded him and he just could not seem to overcome it. He said to me, "Rico, I don't understand why no one will believe that I have repented. The Lord knows my heart is pure and that I have truly repented."

I explained to him that people do not have the same abilities that God has. God can look right into our core and tell if we are sincere. People do not have that ability. It would take us more time to see who he had become on the inside. I told him he just needed to be patient, because eventually who he had become on the inside would be visible on the outside. It was only natural for people to be skeptical of him because, afterall, his target for scams had always been churches, and he had scammed some of the apostolic churches in the area and people knew about it. He understood what I was saying to him, but he was still very disappointed. He wanted everyone to see the new man, not the old man.

I said all that to say this: We need to be careful in our perceptions of the people around us. We may feel we are right on target with someone and not have the ability to see who a person really is. My suggestion would be for us to be cautiously optimistic with people, especially new converts. It may take months, or even years, for them to completely shed the after effects of who they were prior to conversion. We need to use wisdom and Godly discernment. This is one reason why we need mature saints in our churches who have exercised their spiritual senses.

Paul had some advice for him

Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labor, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Not everyone will be convinced, but in doing good and giving back by works and other ways, he may convince some he truely has changed

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Thanks guys! Guess if I had posted a picture of Dora it might have received more views!

Yup...only stupid threads get attention. But then again, if you keep posting here until you get to page 31 then suddenly your thread too will become a stupid thread too

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yup...only stupid threads get attention. But then again, if you keep posting here until you get to page 31 then suddenly your thread too will become a stupid thread too

I think RG is complaining of being praxxed....I direct your attention to:


http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...7&postcount=31

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Thanks guys! Guess if I had posted a picture of Dora it might have received more views!

I was glad you didn't post a pic of Dora...she may need to be put to bed soon.

"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35

And the commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:21

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:7-8

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

In studying the following scriptures on unity and forgiveness, I have a question I'd like to throw out for discussion.

When we come to Christ and put off our old self, we become new and like Him. He has forgiven us and it's written below that we are to forgive others and forget their wrongdoings. I'm with it so far.

Then Ephesians 5:3 starts with BUT and lists several things that should not be among us.

If these things are among us and are a struggle with some, the scriptures say to not be partners with them.

When do we just forgive and forget? Just because someone is looked at as a Christian do we just accept that they are not struggling with any of those things listed and love them as Christ loves them, or not be partners with them?

Since their heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?

Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—

22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Ephesians 5
1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

WE can't. The only thing WE can do is look at fruits and warn

[chosenbyone]

Renda,

This thread reminded me of one not too long ago regarding the journey of forgiving others. Many times we have been faced with such pain inflicted by others that we withdraw in order to protect what we fear most of losing...trust in others.

That road of forgiveness has been different for each traveler in life with all of the bumps, u-turns and dead ends, but we must be reminded that to stop and give up would only hinder us from reaching our destination. That destination of healing and forgiveness that seemed so elusive while we traveled mile after mile could only be reached when we allow Jesus to take control.

Letting go in many ways has meant losing control; however, it was only when we have learned to relinquish control that we allowed Christ to perform that which he had promised. He promised to direct our paths even though our journey of forgiveness may take longer than we had expected, we must be patient and trust his directions.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Renda,

This thread reminded me of one not too long ago regarding the journey of forgiving others. Many times we have been faced with such pain inflicted by others that we withdraw in order to protect what we fear most of losing...trust in others.

That road of forgiveness has been different for each traveler in life with all of the bumps, u-turns and dead ends, but we must be reminded that to stop and give up would only hinder us from reaching our destination. That destination of healing and forgiveness that seemed so elusive while we traveled mile after mile could only be reached when we allow Jesus to take control.

Letting go in many ways has meant losing control; however, it was only when we have learned to relinquish control that we allowed Christ to perform that which he had promised. He promised to direct our paths even though our journey of forgiveness may take longer than we had expected, we must be patient and trust his directions.

Wow CBO!

[Ron]

A little discernment helps as well.

Ever had a parent say to thier kids, "don't go with that person."
"But why Mom?"
"I don't know, I just don't feel right."

We can love forgive and forget, but sometimes God will allow are spirit to sound a warning we need to heed-to be careful.