Is the Father the Son?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Believer

One what? The word used here is not masculine, its neuter. So Jesus isn’t saying one person. If Jesus wanted to say one Person, he would have used the word heis, which is masculine.

RWP: Joh 10:30 -
One (hen). Neuter, not masculine (heis). Not one person (cf. heis in Gal_3:28), but one essence or nature.

Gill: Joh 10:30 - I and my Father are one. Not in person, for the Father must be a distinct person from the Son, and the Son a distinct person from the Father; and which is further manifest, from the use of the verb plural, "I and my Father", εσμεν, "we are one"; that is, in nature and essence,

Barnes: Joh 10:30 -
I and my Father are one - The word translated “one” is not in the masculine, but in the neuter gender. It expresses union, but not the precise nature of the union.

VWS: Joh 10:30 -
One (ἕν)
The neuter, not the masculine εἶς, one person. It implies unity of essence, not merely of will or of power.

Doesn't unity of essence kind of say it all? I mean the Father is God and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.

I think so much of these arguments re the Godhead are semantics. Not totally of course but to a certain extent.

The fact is we will see how many .... WHO .... in heaven?

[Scott Hutchinson]

We will see One ,like John who saw One that sitteth on the throne.
I can't swallow the eternal sonship doctrine that classical Trinitarism teaches.

Originally Posted by BobDylan

You are appealing to a conversation that took place between "father and son" while the incarnate Christ walked on the earth. There is no evidence scripturally that after the ascention, that any further conversation takes place. If you have conversation between two distince "persons" in heaven, then you effective have two Gods... and then if there are conversations between three persons.... then there are three Gods.

By the way, the doctrine of the trinity suggest that the "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all coeterna, coequal, and coexistant persons"...

If the "son" is equal with the father, then why did the son say "my father is greater than I"? Were they coequal, or was one indeed greater than the other?

No evidence? Do you take scripture for what it says?

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Who is Jesus going to confess the believers name to? Lets remember, Jesus return to the Father.

Joh 13:3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God,

Where did Jesus come from and where is He going back to? Its in plain English for us all to read. I'm not trying to trick you into believe anything but what is written.

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Again, believe what you want, but to me (not promoting any doctrine, just pointing out simple scripture) this clearly says that Jesus went back to God (his Father) and is now sitting with His Father on His Father's throne.

Whose throne is Jesus sitting on and who with?

The Son can say that the Father is greater than I because Jesus was in His humanity, He willing came to die on the cross! This is not speaking of deity, but position.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

We will see One ,like John who saw One that sitteth on the throne.
I can't swallow the eternal sonship doctrine that classical Trinitarism teaches.

He also saw one standing between the throne, the Lamb of God. Who was this? And the Son sat down with His Father on HIs Fathers throne.

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

You do understand that eternal life is in the Son right? No eternal Son, no eternal life. I believe the Son to be eternal myself

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Believer

If Jesus wanted to say one Person, he would have used the word heis, which is masculine.

While we are discussing what Jesus did and did not say, please explain why Jesus did not say in John 4:24, "God is three persons." Instead, He said, "God is a Spirit." Had He identified God as "three persons," He would forever have settled the issue.

On another note, I would like an answer to the following question: "Who is your God?" Is He "the Trinity"? Is He "the Father"?

Who is "God"?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

While we are discussing what Jesus did and did not say, please explain why Jesus did not say in John 4:24, "God is three persons." Instead, He said, "God is a Spirit."

On another note, I would like an answer to the following question: "Who is your God?" Is He "the Trinity"? Is He "the Father"?

Who is "God"?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Believer do you believe that Christ existed as the Son of God before His virgin birth ? Can you reconcile GAL.4:4 with that ?

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

While we are discussing what Jesus did and did not say, please explain why Jesus did not say in John 4:24, "God is three persons." Instead, He said, "God is a Spirit."

On another note, I would like an answer to the following question: "Who is your God?" Is He "the Trinity"? Is He "the Father"?

Who is "God"?

The actual Greek is "God is Spirit." Because God is Spirit we are to worship God in spirit and truth. This verse is not telling us that God is one "person." All Trinitarians agree with this verse.

Well, we know the Father is God. We know that the Son is God, and we know that the Holy Spirit is God. According to scripture Jesus never claimed to be the Father, nor the Holy Spirit. The Father wasn't sent so He isn’t the Son. The Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and the Son, so Jesus and the Father are not the Holy Spirit.

My question to you is, is the Son God?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Believer

The actual Greek is "God is Spirit." Because God is Spirit we are to worship God in spirit and truth. This verse is not telling us that God is one "person." All Trinitarians agree with this verse.

Well, we know the Father is God. We know that the Son is God, and we know that the Holy Spirit is God. According to scripture Jesus never claimed to be the Father, nor the Holy Spirit. The Father wasn't sent so He isn’t the Son. The Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and the Son, so Jesus and the Father are not the Holy Spirit.

My question to you is, is the Son God?

You were responding before I was able to edit my post. Accordingly, I will say again what I later inserted: Had Jesus said, "God is three persons," He would have forever settled the issue. However He did not. Rather, He identified God as "Spirit."

You didn't really answer my question as to Who "God" is. You sidestepped it, so I will ask again. When you read the term "God" in the scripture, to Whom does that refer? It is a "floating" term that should be indiscriminately applied to whichever person of the Godhead you believe is being discussed? Or, is there a definite, conclusive answer to the question. I ask again, WHO IS "GOD"?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Believer

My question to you is, is the Son God?

He Who was was the Son was God.

There, I answered your question. Now, please answer mine.