They may not have een oneness but I traveled with this sweet couple and translated for them and heard from their mouths the horrible sufferings they went through...NO JESUS did not practice communism.
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he taught to "go and sin no more" and that's not possible...
He taught all kinds of things that were ideals but weren't 100% attainable... That's the point of ideals...
What are all kinds of things?
We can live above sin with the Power of the Holy Ghost. I have had many major victories over sins that I do not do "no more." I am still a work in progress, but I make progress. That is the point.
I believe that the woman never committed adultry again..what do ya think?
Nevertheless, Jesus was NOT a commie or a Socialist....
Again...for the real record...lest ye forget:
Quote:
Jesus taught that giving was something you do according to your heart and ability...voluntarily.
This is NOT socialism nor communism....this is Christian charity.
If personal property is something Jesus taught against...what have we to give? And those that receive....how can they take possession?
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Posted: October 12, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Tom Snyder
A group of self-described "progressive" Christian evangelicals calling themselves "Red Letter Christians," and led by the left-oriented Sojourners magazine and left-oriented religious pundits like Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo, has recently emerged in the body politic. These self-proclaimed "progressives" have been making a lot of noise recently complaining about the ties that other Christian evangelicals have long held with the conservative movement in the United States, including the conservative movement in the Republican Party.
One policy under attack by these "progressives" is the conservative effort to "cut programs to the poor." They say that such a policy goes against Jesus Christ's commands in chapter 24 of the book of Matthew to feed those who are hungry.
These "Red Letter Christians" are making a lot of noise, but they are just a bunch of clanging cymbals – and the love that they claim to spout has no truth in it whatsoever.
What these misguided religious zealots conveniently fail to note is that nowhere in the New Testament or the other books of the Bible do Jesus Christ, His apostles, God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Moses or the Hebrew prophets command the government to take money from its citizens and transfer it to poor people. In fact, the Bible says just the opposite.
God presents us with three general ways in the Bible to take care of the poor and needy: 1) through the family; 2) through the church; and 3) through individual charity. The applicable passages for these three ways are Deuteronomy 14:28, 29, Numbers 18:24, Matthew 6:1-4 and 1 Timothy 5:3-16.
Now, the first two ways are pretty clear. People's first obligation is to the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned in their own families. Only after they do this do they have any obligation to help the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned through their local church organization. God established the pattern for this kind of church giving in Numbers 18:24 and Deuteronomy 14:28, 29. As David Chilton points out in his great book "Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators," the bulk of Christian giving to the local church should be geared toward financing professional theologians, experts in biblical law and church discipline, teachers of God's word and leaders skilled in worship. It was only every third year that all the giving was set aside to help the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned. Even then, the money was not given just to anyone who showed up. Those able to work but don't do not qualify for help. Also, those who have families to take care of them don't qualify, nor do widows under age 60 qualify, according to the Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 5:3-16.
Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, talks about the third way in Matthew 6. He tells His listeners that they should give individual charity. He also says they should give such charity secretly: "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing."
In other words, Jesus is not a socialist. Nor is he a liberal. In fact, in none of the Bible passages just cited, nor in any others I know of, does Jesus, God or even Moses cite the government as the means by which the poor, needy, widowed and orphaned are housed, clothed and fed.
Thus, a simple, straightforward reading of the Bible, God's Word, including the "Red Letter" words of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, clearly shows that the American welfare state is anti-Christian and unbiblical. Any Christian who advocates such a government welfare system (including clergymen or women) should be harshly rebuked. Furthermore, any members of any political party, including Republicans, Democrats, Reform Party members, Libertarians or whatever, who advocate such a socialist system yet claim to be Christian should be reprimanded by their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and by all church leaders.
If any such party members refuse to repent and change their ways, then their names should be posted at their church and throughout the whole land so that all Christians in the United States can know not to vote for these people or place them in positions of authority and leadership. Of course, all Christians should encourage families to take care of their own. And they should also encourage their churches to give at least one-third of their gross income to help the poor, needy, widowed and orphaned.
On that note, it is interesting to recall that the 10th Commandment in Exodus 20:17 actually protects private property by commanding people not to covet their neighbor's house or belongings. That commands applies to the average citizen as well as the elected official, the judge and all other government officials.
Furthermore, the Bible condemns laziness and praises hard work. Proverbs 10:4 says, "Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth." Proverbs 14:23 says, "All hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty."
Finally, it is interesting to note that, in Mark 7:20-23, not only does Jesus Christ declare that all sex outside of heterosexual marriage, including homosexuality, pre-marital sex and adultery, is evil, he also declares that both greed and envy are evil. Thus, Jesus Christ condemns both the greed of the rich man as well as the greed of the poor man, and the envy of the poor man as well as the envy of the rich man.
Thus, God condemns the politics of envy of the left, and he extols the virtues of hard work and capitalism, not just the value of charity!
Liberals and socialists like the "Red Letter Christians," Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Ted Kennedy and former Vice President Al Gore are violating the commands of Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh. They are also violating the commands that God gives all of us in the Hebrew Scriptures as well. If they truly want to follow the words of Jesus in the New Testament, they should stop their opposition to the real Christian movement in America and join it. One of the first things they should do immediately is help cut government programs for the poor.
Christians must stop the ungodly, immoral rape of American citizens with the totalitarian, socialist welfare state! They must establish a proper and godly system of family, church and private charity. Not just Christians, but all true Americans should follow God's clear guidance in this matter. God will reward us mightily for our obedience in these matters.
Tell that to the original church... who shared everything among them...
I posted before about the ellipses inherent in the phrase, "... had all things in common..." (Acts 2:44 and Acts 4:32). Peter expounds on this principle showing the respect that the early church community had for the private possession of goods; "Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?" (Acts 5:4). Both before and after the possession was sold it belonged to Ananias and Sapphira. They were free to determine what become of the funds. The point where they ran afoul was in trying to deceive the community about their intentions. But the possession itself, Peter emphatically states- was "thine own."
That's not real communism. Real communism would have dictated that the possession belonged to the church and Ananias and Sapphira had no power over it at all.
Concerning collections at church, Paul says, "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (1 Corinthians 16:2). The funds were to be collected from individuals based upon the abilities (and willingness) of those individuals to give. No real communism here.
As Sister A. and others have pointed out, the problem with modern Communism is that it is a philosophical system based wholly upon materialism - the idea that there is no Spiritual realm. We have a bone to pick with the Communists long before we even get to economic issues.
Redeemedcynic, I think you have an idealized view of socialism/communism when you say, "[Jesus] held and preached the same ideals that communism/socialism is founded on..." There have been "communistic" movements in history (the Lollards in Britain and the Peasant Revolt in Germany) that were at least partially based upon the Christian teaching. But the example of Peter in Acts 5, seems to me to be the Apostle's emphatically saying "No" to communism.
In Acts 5, they had an ideal situation for a communist revolt. Peter and the others could have easily used the circumstances to plunder Ananias and any one else with material goods. Instead, in a courtroom-like setting, Peter argues emphatically, the "possession is yours," and "it's in your own power what happens with that possession..." thus stifling any notions of communism even planting root there.
The ideal of communism is truly a noble and good ideal, in my opinion. However, it really is best to leave it in the realm of ideals as we make an appeal to one another's hearts to be open and giving. But human experience has proven throughout history, however well intended the motivation, communism just doesn't work in this world with the human species; at least not on a large scale. Small communes have done okay, but nations have impoverished themselves with it.
Tell that to the original church... who shared everything among them...
And Paul didn't take up a collection for the Jerusalem church to help them in thier poverty after the Jerusalem council... Its actually thought of by more scholars as a pay-off to allow him to preach that the gentiles don't have to follow the law...
same "scholars" that think Jesus was the son of Mary and a roman soldier named Tiberius Pantera?
get real. that is a load of bunk and you ought to know better! Paul had to BRIBE the Apostles so he could preach?
that is wacked out man.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I already dealt with this but Jesus was most certainly NOT a communist! of any kind. how obsurd.
Taking care of sick people is not a communist ideal. It is a christian ideal. feeding the poor isnt a communist ideal it is a christian one.
AND the Jerusalem church fell into massive poverty one can certainly assume it was because of their practice of holding everything in common.
AND
there is NO EVIDENCE that any other church besides the Jerusalem church practiced communal living.
NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.
Communism is OF THE DEVIL, at its best it is a counterfit meant to replace faith in God, for faith in a state.
there is NO single thing within the "theory of communism" that has any redeaming value.
From each according to his ability to each according to his need seems like great wisdom, but who decides what the need is? The one receiving or the one giving?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
same "scholars" that think Jesus was the son of Mary and a roman soldier named Tiberius Pantera?
get real. that is a load of bunk and you ought to know better! Paul had to BRIBE the Apostles so he could preach?
that is wacked out man.
While I agree with your position, I think "wacked out man" is a little strong. Many have in fact tried to make this very case.
Personally I reject the "bribe the church in Jerusalem" thesis because of Paul's words in Romans 15:25-26. He says that the Gentile churches that took up the collection did so simply because it "pleased them." They wanted to do it. In verse 27 he tells the Romans that the Gentiles are in a way spiritual "debtors" to the Jerusalem church. However in verse 31 he actually asks the Romans to pray that the saints in Jerusalem even accept the money.
It doesn't really appear to be a pro-quid-quo type of payment that occurred. Rather it seems like the Gentiles may have been using the economic distress of the Jerusalem church as an opportunity to "heap coals of fire" upon the heads of their erstwhile brethren.
When 34-year old Jiang Zongziu and her mother-in-law went to their neighboring market in Guizhou Province, China; Jiang took this as an opportunity to hand out Bibles and Christian literature. Only this day they had an encounter with the Chinese police.
The two Christian women were handcuffed together and brought to the police station. They were interrogated throughout the evening. The next morning they were sentenced by the Public Security Bureau (PSB) to 15 days incarceration for “suspected spreading of rumor and disturbing the social order.”
Jiang and her mother-in-law knew the risk of spreading Christian literature in communist China. Both had been active in their church for more than 10 years and dared to go forth. Even when they were arrested, interrogated and sentenced to serve 15 days, they were willing to accept the consequences of their actions-all from a government that claims to have “freedom of religion.”
But it was not enough for the PSB to arrest and beat these two Christian women for the crime of passing our Christian literature. The following afternoon Mrs. Jiang Zongziu was pronounced dead by the PSB office of Tongzi County. They claimed she died of “natural causes.” The fact is she was beaten to death.
The Voice of the Martyrs has received video testimony from the surviving family, photos of Jiang body showing her bruised body, and a copy of the actual arrest document. All of this had to be smuggled out of China as the authorities continue to attempt to hide their systematic persecution of Christians.
Much of the world would like you to believe Christians are no longer persecuted. Sister Jiang's family would disagree.
again, you are missnig the entire point of what I am saying...
There is a rift between the IDEA of communism and the way that communism has been enacted in the world...
the idea of socialism, which is what communism is trying to get to (in theory), is great... It is something the early church practiced (at least on a large level, if not entirely) and is something that Jesus espoused many ideas that are also a part of socialism...
BUT the way that communism has been put into practice in the modern world is horrible... But it isn't communism that is evil, its the governments and the men who have put a great, wonderful thought into practice in a way that is never going to get to that wonderful place and is nothing like that thing it, supposedly, aspires to be...
Your issue is with specific governments, not ideals... But your attack focuses on the ideals, not the governments...
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