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  #21  
Old 10-25-2007, 05:00 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by Subdued View Post
Is the joy of the Lord an emotion?
That's another good question!!!
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2007, 05:31 PM
Barb Barb is offline
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Originally Posted by Subdued View Post
Is the joy of the Lord an emotion?
No, Sub...

Joy is a fruit of the abiding Spirit...if the Spirit is present, so is joy.

Now, circumstances and cares of life may hamper the evidence of it, but the joy is still there.

The reason we think it is not is because we do think of it as an emotion, and this is a natural response. We are emotional beings, so we tend to think in those terms.

But the joy of the Lord is not a shout or dance or hand wave. It is not walking around with a smile 24/7.

It is an assurance that in spite if whatever comes or whoever goes, God is a constant.

Jesus said that His desire was that our joy might be full...full as in to the brim and overflowing.

Whether or not deep seated depression can be present in the same vessel with the overflowing joy of the Lord, well I'll leave the great and near great minds to determine that.

But I do know, and can speak from my experience, that when we feel as though there is no joy, we need but reach down and pull it up.

The joy is where the Spirit is..."out of your belly (inner beings) shall flow rivers of living water."

Just my tuckered out thoughts...
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2007, 05:47 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by Barb View Post
No, Sub...

Joy is a fruit of the abiding Spirit...if the Spirit is present, so is joy.

Now, circumstances and cares of life may hamper the evidence of it, but the joy is still there.

The reason we think it is not is because we do think of it as an emotion, and this is a natural response. We are emotional beings, so we tend to think in those terms.

But the joy of the Lord is not a shout or dance or hand wave. It is not walking around with a smile 24/7.

It is an assurance that in spite if whatever comes or whoever goes, God is a constant.

Jesus said that His desire was that our joy might be full...full as in to the brim and overflowing.

Whether or not deep seated depression can be present in the same vessel with the overflowing joy of the Lord, well I'll leave the great and near great minds to determine that.

But I do know, and can speak from my experience, that when we feel as though there is no joy, we need but reach down and pull it up.

The joy is where the Spirit is..."out of your belly (inner beings) shall flow rivers of living water."

Just my tuckered out thoughts...
Great post, Barb.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
No, Sub...

Joy is a fruit of the abiding Spirit...if the Spirit is present, so is joy.

Now, circumstances and cares of life may hamper the evidence of it, but the joy is still there.

The reason we think it is not is because we do think of it as an emotion, and this is a natural response. We are emotional beings, so we tend to think in those terms.

But the joy of the Lord is not a shout or dance or hand wave. It is not walking around with a smile 24/7.

It is an assurance that in spite if whatever comes or whoever goes, God is a constant.

Jesus said that His desire was that our joy might be full...full as in to the brim and overflowing.

Whether or not deep seated depression can be present in the same vessel with the overflowing joy of the Lord, well I'll leave the great and near great minds to determine that.

But I do know, and can speak from my experience, that when we feel as though there is no joy, we need but reach down and pull it up.

The joy is where the Spirit is..."out of your belly (inner beings) shall flow rivers of living water."

Just my tuckered out thoughts...
I do not think the joy of the Lord is an emotion.

With that said if the Joy of the Lord is assurance that God hasn't left, then that's where I would struggle thinking that one can be depressed (clinically) and have the joy of the Lord.

People that are clinically depressed, even though it can be a chemical imbalance, usually do not have a feeling of assurance or that everything is going to be okay. They feel hopeless......how can you have the joy of the Lord and feel hopeless?
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2007, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
ILG, I'm in complete agreement with you. To me, it's like wondering how people can laugh at a funeral.

We can have joy in spite of our sorrows in life.
Right.
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2007, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
I'm assuming that we are talking depression here and not just sadness, so with that said here are the symptoms of depression:

Symptoms of major depression include:

Distinctly depressed or irritable mood
Loss of interest or pleasure
Decreased or increased weight or appetite
Increased or decreased sleep
Appearing slowed or agitated
Fatigue and loss of energy
Feeling worthless or guilty
Poor concentration
Indecisiveness
Thoughts of death, suicide attempts or plans

How could the Joy of the Lord be where these feelings are?
Can hope and futility be in a person at the same time? Of course they can. Otherwise there would be no reason to ever look up.
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2007, 10:14 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
I do not think the joy of the Lord is an emotion.

With that said if the Joy of the Lord is assurance that God hasn't left, then that's where I would struggle thinking that one can be depressed (clinically) and have the joy of the Lord.

People that are clinically depressed, even though it can be a chemical imbalance, usually do not have a feeling of assurance or that everything is going to be okay. They feel hopeless......how can you have the joy of the Lord and feel hopeless?
You are confusing what comes from the Spirit of God with what happens to us physically.

This is no different than stating that you cannot understand how someone can have the joy of the Lord yet have heart disease.

Hopelessness can be a symptom, but not necessarily.

Maybe it's because of my nursing background that I can see a difference in what is commonly believed and what is actually fact.

In addition, when meds are used, they typically aren't depressed or have those feelings. The meds are working, but without them, they still have the problem. It's also no different than other ailments in which meds are used for control, and while the disease is real, they may not exhibit symptoms while on the meds.

Hope I'm not talking over anyone's head, and I'm trying not to do that, but help some of you gain an understanding of this problem that effects so many, even those who have the joy of the Lord.

Lastly, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. But aren't there times when we don't exhibit these fruit? Does this mean we don't have fruit of the Spirit if we lack any one of these at any given time? Interesting questions to ponder, even for myself. One only needs to look around this forum to find what's lacking in us all. Sadly, there is no pill to cure our humanity.

But I digress....

This conversation is interesting to me.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2007, 10:15 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Can hope and futility be in a person at the same time? Of course they can. Otherwise there would be no reason to ever look up.
Interesting point to ponder. We can't look up unless we are down.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2007, 04:18 AM
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Can a person FEEL hopeless yet KNOW there's hope?
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Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

1Pe 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
No, Sub...

Joy is a fruit of the abiding Spirit...if the Spirit is present, so is joy.

Now, circumstances and cares of life may hamper the evidence of it, but the joy is still there.

The reason we think it is not is because we do think of it as an emotion, and this is a natural response. We are emotional beings, so we tend to think in those terms.

But the joy of the Lord is not a shout or dance or hand wave. It is not walking around with a smile 24/7.

It is an assurance that in spite if whatever comes or whoever goes, God is a constant.

Jesus said that His desire was that our joy might be full...full as in to the brim and overflowing.

Whether or not deep seated depression can be present in the same vessel with the overflowing joy of the Lord, well I'll leave the great and near great minds to determine that.

But I do know, and can speak from my experience, that when we feel as though there is no joy, we need but reach down and pull it up.

The joy is where the Spirit is..."out of your belly (inner beings) shall flow rivers of living water."

Just my tuckered out thoughts...
Good post, Barb; and I agree.
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Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

1Pe 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
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