Some standing here

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Originally Posted by James LeDeay

Did not say that, Olive where Jesus shall set foot on earth, can be seem from that point.

Yeah and there shall be some standing in Macon which shall not die, but be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

That's not what was said. Jesus said some standing there in that very moment among those people, would not die BEFORE Jesus came.

And Jesus spoke of ONE coming in Matthew before Matthew 24. The coming of destruction.

Matthew 21:40-41 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Is that not a coming of the Lord? That was speaking of the very people who killed Him. He told them to their faces they would kill him when he gave that parable. They knew it, too, because we read later they perceived he spoke of them. That was called HIS COMING. the vineyard was Jerusalem and the temple. The grapes were the hearts of the people praising God and serving Him. And the religious leaders robbed God of tall all that and kept it for themselves. they took Jesus out of the vineyard, Jerusalem, and killed Him. Some of those people were still alive when destruction came in AD70 forty years later.

And when Jesus said HE WOULD COME and destroy those people, the pharisees knew He meant them!

Matthew 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

And the other place where Jesus spoke of COMING was here:

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The other place is Matt 16.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

He did not say there would simply be people still alive when He comes. He said some of THOSE PEOPLE THERE THAT DAY would still be alive when He came. Not when he would be transfigured and not centuries later when they're all dead. WHEN HE WOULD COME.

That is the ONLY coming we read about in Matthew before chapter 24. So THAT is the coming of Matt 24. That's not the second coming, though. The second coming has no destruction associated with it. Read 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 for the second coming. Jesus was not talking about that any where before Matthew 24, though.

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Matthew 21:33-46 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

That vineyard is the people of Israel and the tower is the temple in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 5:1-7 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: (2) And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. (3) And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. (4) What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? (5) And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: (6) And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. (7) For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

Righteousness and judgment were the GRAPES the servants and the Son came to get.

Wild grapes were there instead, and were the oppression and a cry.


Matthew 21 Continued:

Matthew 21 (34) And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Isaiah explained what the fruits were proper and good judgment, and righteousness.

(35) And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

These are the prophets sent before Jesus whom Israel persecutedd when they tried correcting the people.

(36) Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

More and more prophets were sent during Old Testament times.

(37) But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

Jesus, Himself, finally comes. SON OF GOD.

(38) But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. (39) And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

They took him out of the city and crucified Him. Jesus said all of this before any of it happened. He of course knew it would happen.

(40) When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

The very same husbandmen WHOM JESUS REBUKED and corrected for unrighteousness and evil judgment (wild grapes) he CAME TO DESTROY! Not people thousands of years later.

(41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

THOSE WICKED MEN, not descendants or others centuries later. THEM! And He called it HIS COMING! When the Lord of the vineyard COMETH.

(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Who rejected the stone? Those religious leaders in that day IN JERUSALEM.

(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Giving his vineyard to another people is the kingdom given to another people. NOT POSTPONED for two thousand years! the kingdom was not postponed. It was given to OTHER PEOPLE. The halt and the lame and the lowly among the Jews, and the only people in the church for the first three years after the cross WERE JEWS OF JERUSALEM! NO ONE ELSE. It's NOT a gentile church.

And Gentiles JOINED IT.

But the OTHER NATION and PEOPLE were given the kingdom two thousand years ago once He took it from the religious leaders. It was not a kingdom taken from Jews to be given to the Jews two thousands years later. It was never taken from Jews. It was taken from the RELIGIOUS LEADERS.

(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. (46) But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

The people alive then knew He said the Lord would COME to THEM.

And THAT is the COMING the disciples asked Jesus about in Matthew 24, not the second coming when the resurrection occurs.

That's why they asked about the sign of His coming, because they heard him talk about destruction of the temple stone by stone, and the last time he spoke of His coming was in Matt 21 where he said he'd come and destroy those wicked husbandmen called pharisees and religious leaders, and give the kingdom to someone else. They knew temple destruction was the coming from Matthew 21:40, not the second coming. No resurrection of the second coming was associated with the coming of destruction written in Matthew.

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Look what happend the same day Jesus spoke of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen.

Matthew 21:18-19 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered. (19) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

The fig tree represents all the FAKE RELIGION going on where there was no real fruit for the Lord. he was hungry for the fruit just like the parable says the grapes were for the Master. And Isaiah said the grapes he hungered for were righteousness and honest judgment.

And by cursing the fig tree he cursed Jerusalem.

That's why he entered the temple and overthrew the money tables. The fig tree represented the false activity in the temple. Lost of leaves, lost of activity, but it's not what God wanted.

Mark 11:13-16 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (14) And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. (15) And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; (16) And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

These following people are the NATION he gave the kingdom to, when the religious leaders would not come to him:

Matthew 21:14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

The next chapter!

Matthew 22:2-10 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, (3) And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. (4) Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. (5) But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: (6) And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. (7) But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. (8) Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. (9) Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. (10) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Those first bidden to the wedding were the religious leaders of Jerusalem. They refused. Just like the parable showed the husbandmen refuse to give the SON the grapes.

So, just like Matt 21, the kindgom was given to another people, NOT POSTPONED, called the people who were both bad and good.

Luke 14:12-13 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee. (13) But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shazeep

so iow, Christ isn't good enough, you need "proof" of some "facts" from other men? Then what about "AD?" "The year of our Lord?" Let me guess--i'm taking that out of context or something, right?

Yeah, like AD. That will suffice.

We have proof in writing that Jesus lived and died.

Now simply give me proof that Jesus returned a second time.

I mean ANY kind of proof.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yeah, like AD. That will suffice.

We have proof in writing that Jesus lived and died.

Now simply give me proof that Jesus returned a second time.

I mean ANY kind of proof.

Matthew 21:40-41 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


He said coming to his vineyard, Jerusalem, in destruction was a COMING. Proof right there. That is not THE second coming, but it was a coming.

The pharisees knew he spoke about coming to judge them!

Matthew 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

And lo and behold the temple was destroyed. he said He'd come and destroy them, and the temple was destroyed! And those Jews were, too! That's real proof.

[Sean]

Time to fix Mikes' mistakes....


34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.(Jesus)

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? This is a parable of the 2nd coming?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. The dispersion of the Jews is all the 2nd coming of Jesus is about?

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Did the kingdom of God get stripped from them in 70ad, or Pentecost?
If you say 70ad, then the Jews were consider Gods' kingdom for over 30 years after Pentecost.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

To say that this PARABLE is a description of the 2nd coming is a big time stretch.

Jesus did not return to kill Jews, but when He returns, He will RESTORE Israel in His promised KINGDOM.

[Sean]

Like this...

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

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Originally Posted by Sean

Time to fix Mikes' mistakes....


34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.(Jesus)

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? This is a parable of the 2nd coming?

No. read what I said. I said this is not the second coming. But it is a "coming".

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. The dispersion of the Jews is all the 2nd coming of Jesus is about?

No. Why are you not reading my words?

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Did the kingdom of God get stripped from them in 70ad, or Pentecost?

It got stripped from them when Jesus was still there alive!

If you say 70ad, then the Jews were consider Gods' kingdom for over 30 years after Pentecost.

I never said AD70. It was stripped before they even crucified Him.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

To say that this PARABLE is a description of the 2nd coming is a big time stretch.

Jesus did not return to kill Jews, but when He returns, He will RESTORE Israel in His promised KINGDOM.

I distinctly said it was not the second coming. Read my words again.

So read better next time., Wow.

Jesus came in AD70 like He said he would come in Matt 21:40 and destroyed those husbandmen.

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Read my words again.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Matthew 21:40-41 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


He said coming to his vineyard, Jerusalem, in destruction was a COMING. Proof right there. That is not THE second coming, but it was a coming.

The pharisees knew he spoke about coming to judge them!

Matthew 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

And lo and behold the temple was destroyed. he said He'd come and destroy them, and the temple was destroyed! And those Jews were, too! That's real proof.

[Sean]

I thought you were trying to say this passage was about the 2nd coming. Thanks for clarifying that you do not believe that.