We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by mfblume

For the record, Jeremiah 10 is no grounds against a christmas tree. When Jeremiah wrote of taking a tree and decking it with gold and silver, it was speaking of plating carved statutes made of wood with gold and silver. Since the wooden idol was made from wood, and in reality, the only life it had was that of being a TREE, then Jeremiah used the term TREE. He did not mean people took whole trees that were uncarved and not limbed and garnished them with trinkets like people do with Christmas trees.

Whoa!

I've never heard this before-- or read it. Do you have anything that backs up this interpretation?

I think of the scripture that refers to Christ hanging on a tree, but He also was nailed to a cross. Your explanation fits those scriptures.

How about historical fact for your interpretation? What was the idol? Anything at all to make what you have stated something that is not solely your "revelation."


Thanks!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by 1399

Whoa!

I've never heard this before-- or read it. Do you have anything that backs up this interpretation?

I think of the scripture that refers to Christ hanging on a tree, but He also was nailed to a cross. Your explanation fits those scriptures.

How about historical fact for your interpretation? What was the idol? Anything at all to make what you have stated something that is not solely your "revelation."


Thanks!

I think it is nothing about revelation concerning the matter at all.

Researchers have said this:

Adam Clarke:

Jeremiah 10:3-5 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. (4) They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. (5) They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


Jer 10:3
One cutteth a tree out of the forest - See the notes on Isa_40:19 (note), and Isa_44:9 (note), etc., which are all parallel places and where this conduct is strongly ridiculed.

When you go to Isa's two verses cited above we read: :

Isaiah 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

It's just a different way of rephrasing the same thought about idols.

John Gill wrote:

for one cutteth a tree out of the forest (the work of the hands of the workman) with the axe; not for building, or for burning, but to make a god of; the vanity, stupidity, and folly of which are manifest, when it is considered that the original of it is a tree that grew in the forest; the matter and substance of it the body and trunk of a tree cut down with an axe, and then hewed with the same, and planed with a plane, and formed into the image of a man, or of some creature; and now, to fall down and worship this must be vanity and madness to the last degree; see Isa_44:13.

Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold,.... Cover it with plates of silver and gold, for the sake of ornament, that it may look grand, majestic, and venerable; and by this means draw the eye and attention, and so the devotion of people to it:

[joyful]

Originally Posted by 1399

Whoa!

I've never heard this before-- or read it. Do you have anything that backs up this interpretation?

I think of the scripture that refers to Christ hanging on a tree, but He also was nailed to a cross. Your explanation fits those scriptures.

How about historical fact for your interpretation? What was the idol? Anything at all to make what you have stated something that is not solely your "revelation."


Thanks!

I know you didn't ask me, but one thing that may point to this interpretation is the definition of workman in Jer. 10:3

Strong's Number: 02796 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
Xrx from (02790)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Charash TWOT - 760a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khaw-rawsh' Noun Masculine

Definition
craftsman, artisan, engraver, graver, artificer
graver, artificer

This seems to point to a craftsman that would be carving and plating an idol rather than someone just chopping down a tree.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by joyful

I know you didn't ask me, but one thing that may point to this interpretation is the definition of workman in Jer. 10:3

Strong's Number: 02796 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
Xrx from (02790)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Charash TWOT - 760a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khaw-rawsh' Noun Masculine

Definition
craftsman, artisan, engraver, graver, artificer
graver, artificer

This seems to point to a craftsman that would be carving and plating an idol rather than someone just chopping down a tree.

Very good point.

It is so easy to read these passages and throw them into 2008 and misunderstand them.

[Jermyn Davidson]

this post id just to add to the amount of posts that this thread has generated. Hopefully, we will push this thread beyond the amount of posts in one of the other threads that I started.

Maybe even I'll be post 700!!! Woo Hoo!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

For the record, Jeremiah 10 is no grounds against a christmas tree. When Jeremiah wrote of taking a tree and decking it with gold and silver, it was speaking of plating carved statutes made of wood with gold and silver. Since the wooden idol was made from wood, and in reality, the only life it had was that of being a TREE, then Jeremiah used the term TREE. He did not mean people took whole trees that were uncarved and not limbed and garnished them with trinkets like people do with Christmas trees.

Brother Blume, does Brother Larry T Smith still abstain from pagan holidays?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Blume, does Brother Larry T Smith still abstain from pagan holidays?

Yes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes.

Thank you.

[mfblume]

Antipas,

Israeli meteorologists tracked December weather patterns for many years and concluded that the climate in Israel has been essentially constant for at least the last 2,000 years. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible states that, "broadly speaking, weather phenomena and climatic conditions as pictured in the Bible correspond with conditions as observed today" (R.B.Y. Scott, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1962, p. 625).

The temperature in the area of Bethlehem in December averages around 44 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) but can drop to well below freezing, especially at night. Describing the weather there, Sara Ruhin, chief of the Israeli weather service, noted in a 1990 press release that the area has three months of frost: December with 29 F. [minus 1.6 C.]; January with 30 F. [minus 1.1 C.] and February with 32 F. [0 C.].

Snow is common for two or three days in Jerusalem and nearby Bethlehem in December and January. These were the winter months of increased precipitation in Christ's time, when the roads became practically unusable and people stayed mostly indoors.

...

A common practice of shepherds was keeping their flocks in the field from April to October, but in the cold and rainy winter months they took their flocks back home and sheltered them.

...

The Companion Bible, Appendix 179 says:

Shepherds and their flocks would not be found "abiding" (Gr. agrauleo) in the open fields at night in December (Tebeth), for the paramount reason that there would be no pasturage at that time. It was the custom then (as now) to withdraw the flocks during the month Marchesven (Oct.-Nov.) from the open districts and house them for the winter.

http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Antipas,



http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm

I think that based upon that article, it's fair to say that it's highly unlikely that Jesus was born in the Winter months. However, that doesn't preclude allowing for an honorary observance. For example, we do communion on New Year's Eve. If we were to be true to Scripture it would be a full meal held privately in homes on the Passover (or the day before as some scholars propose).