End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

Paul considered them fellow laborers, doing the same kind of work... In fact, there is even a sense of equality suggested in the language Paul uses with respect to these two servants, as well as certain others... The apostle saw these brethren as a team of workers, each of them, men and women alike, ready, willing, and able to give up all for the Messiah, even to putting their own lives on the line!.. Clearly, Paul had no problem with women serving to the maximum in getting the initial groundwork of the kingdom successfully laid...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Paul considered them fellow laborers, doing the same kind of work... In fact, there is even a sense of equality suggested in the language Paul uses with respect to these two servants, as well as certain others... The apostle saw these brethren as a team of workers, each of them, men and women alike, ready, willing, and able to give up all for the Messiah, even to putting their own lives on the line!.. Clearly, Paul had no problem with women serving to the maximum in getting the initial groundwork of the kingdom successfully laid...

Actually, the diametrical opposite is true. The Greek words here denote an assistant - nowhere near "a sense of equality."


They were "equal" in their goal, not role !

[Sister Alvear]

Let's look at another source...

Romans 16:3‑5 - Greet (1) Priscilla and Aquila my (2) helpers in Christ Jesus:.. [4] Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles... [5] Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.....(1)...... Priscilla, pris'‑cil‑lah, Greek 4252; diminative of Greek 4251 (*Priska); Priscilla (i.e. little Prisca), a Christian woman :‑ Priscilla...·.............. Priska, pris'‑kah, Greek 4251; of Latin origin; feminine of Priscus, ancient; Priska, a Christian woman :‑ Prisca... See also Greek 4252 (Priscilla)...(2) (helpers).. ..sunergos, soon‑er‑gos', Greek 4904; from a presumed compound of Greek 4862 (sun) and the base of Greek 2041 (ergon); a co‑laborer, i.e. coadjutor :‑ companion in labour, (fellow‑) helper (‑labourer, ‑worker), labourer together with, workfellow...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Let's look at another source...

Romans 16:3‑5 - Greet (1) Priscilla and Aquila my (2) helpers in Christ Jesus:.. [4] Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles... [5] Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.....(1)...... Priscilla, pris'‑cil‑lah, Greek 4252; diminative of Greek 4251 (*Priska); Priscilla (i.e. little Prisca), a Christian woman :‑ Priscilla...·.............. Priska, pris'‑kah, Greek 4251; of Latin origin; feminine of Priscus, ancient; Priska, a Christian woman :‑ Prisca... See also Greek 4252 (Priscilla)...(2) (helpers).. ..sunergos, soon‑er‑gos', Greek 4904; from a presumed compound of Greek 4862 (sun) and the base of Greek 2041 (ergon); a co‑laborer, i.e. coadjutor :‑ companion in labour, (fellow‑) helper (‑labourer, ‑worker), labourer together with, workfellow...

Where does this definition, or, more importantly, the BIBLE ITSELF, say anything whatsoever that would lead anyone to believe women instructed men out of the Scriptures??


Already posted the lexical data on these terms anyway .

[n david]

Thank you Sis Alvear and RDP for the lively debate. I've been following along and am enjoying this.

I have no issues with women preachers or teachers, though I don't believe women should be Pastors.

One question, Sis Alvear - How do you interpret Phil 4:2-3 and Romans 16:3-5 to mean these women were preaching with Paul? There are many ways someone can be a co-laborer or helper. I see nothing in these scriptures or elsewhere where it's written these women preached or taught. It's really adding something that isn't there to say they did so.

The Greek you posted also doesn't mention preaching or teaching. Is there something else written either in the Bible or historical accounts which proves these women did, or is this just your added interpretation?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by n david

Thank you Sis Alvear and RDP for the lively debate. I've been following along and am enjoying this.

I have no issues with women preachers or teachers, though I don't believe women should be Pastors.

One question, Sis Alvear - How do you interpret Phil 4:2-3 and Romans 16:3-5 to mean these women were preaching with Paul? There are many ways someone can be a co-laborer or helper. I see nothing in these scriptures or elsewhere where it's written these women preached or taught. It's really adding something that isn't there to say they did so.

The Greek you posted also doesn't mention preaching or teaching. Is there something else written either in the Bible or historical accounts which proves these women did, or is this just your added interpretation?

Trust me, she will never produce one-single Biblical example of a woman "preaching" to a congregation of men out of the Scriptures. I've been asking her for to produce one-single passage which reflects this for years now. Her response? Ignore the exegesis of I Timothy 2 & just stubbornly plod along copying & pasting material that has been refuted point-by-point over & over (as she's done here once again). Sigh.....


Tell ya' what though, give me an hour or 2 & I'll do it again (for about the 10th time) !

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by rdp

Trust me, she will never produce one-single Biblical example of a woman "preaching" to a congregation of men out of the Scriptures. I've been asking her for to produce one-single passage which reflects this for years now. Her response? Ignore the exegesis of I Timothy 2 & just stubbornly plod along copying & pasting material that has been refuted point-by-point over & over (as she's done here once again). Sigh.....


Tell ya' what though, give me an hour or 2 & I'll do it again (for about the 10th time) !

Why do you persist, when the first time was not successful? I note that several--more than 2 or 3--have witnessed against this. In my experience, a hard truth, correctly put on a thread, leads to silence, and not opposing witnesses coming out of the woodwork (me).

Wadr, your example, correctly interpreted, only seems to be making SA's point, imo:

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

tells us that we--male or female--have a man as a mediator.
And, as i'm sure has been exhaustively pointed out now,

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

interpreted your way must ignore all the other Scriptures that deny it? And mind you, i started into this thread leaning your way! There is a point at which 'preaching the letters' gets shown up for what it is here, imo. Verse 12 seems pretty plainly to be about usurp; you might replace teach with lecture, an easy enough leap, and then but to be in silence might be assumed to mean where these things are concerned.

A reflection of this just came to me, when i 'forced' a pov of coming from 'Love.' Now, i don't expect this to change any decided minds, but i have to believe that this certainly allows enough room for a woman's ministry to be judged by its fruit? I mean, how do you reply to a fruitful woman's ministry? God has made her fruitful, but you do not allow it?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Why do you persist, when the first time was not successful? I note that several--more than 2 or 3--have witnessed against this. In my experience, a hard truth, correctly put on a thread, leads to silence, and not opposing witnesses coming out of the woodwork (me).

Wadr, your example, correctly interpreted, only seems to be making SA's point, imo:

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

tells us that we--male or female--have a man as a mediator.
And, as i'm sure has been exhaustively pointed out now,

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

interpreted your way must ignore all the other Scriptures that deny it? And mind you, i started into this thread leaning your way! There is a point at which 'preaching the letters' gets shown up for what it is here, imo. Verse 12 seems pretty plainly to be about usurp; you might replace teach with lecture, an easy enough leap, and then but to be in silence might be assumed to mean where these things are concerned.

A reflection of this just came to me, when i 'forced' a pov of coming from 'Love.' Now, i don't expect this to change any decided minds, but i have to believe that this certainly allows enough room for a woman's ministry to be judged by its fruit? I mean, how do you reply to a fruitful woman's ministry? God has made her fruitful, but you do not allow it?

I have no idea who or what "wadr" is? Second, "why do I persist" in asking for biblical evidences of one's assertions? Ummm, because I base my beliefs on the Word of God ??


It's not "my interpretation," it is the crystal-clear Word of God that somehow doesn't mean what it plainly says to some folks....amazing - all in order to force their lifestyle preferences into the Bible - a Bible that never states the same thing . Shame on them (but, again, this is AFF so no small wonder).

[Sister Alvear]

my point is really that women labored in the gospel and did whatever these men were doing for the gospel the women were doing the same thing...

however later I will be back and post more...thanks for your imput

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

my point is really that women labored in the gospel and did whatever these men were doing for the gospel the women were doing the same thing...

however later I will be back and post more...thanks for your imput

Hmmm, since the women did everything Paul did, we're they "alongside" him in jail also ? We're they beheaded right "alongside" Paul in Rome? As has been pointed out already, you're merely swatting at something that's not there (& never will be no matter how much you copy-paste). We're the women beaten "alongside" Paul...Let down out a window "alongside" Paul? Were they shipwrecked & in the deep "alongside" Paul? Would love to we the biblical evidences for this (won't hold my breath ).


Or, will you now limit the usage of "alongside" - all the while attempting to cram in your preference? Sorry Sis., but you've caught adding your biases into the Word of God - Again !