More On Beards

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, everyone has an opinion. But some opinions are valid and others are invalid.

For example, there is absolutely no BIBLICAL prohibition on beards. Therefore, the standard is extra-biblical and is a "commandment of men".

It comes down to what is TRUTH and what isn't. The TRUTH is, there is no BIBLICAL prohibition on beards. The notion is purely a man made construct.

Those with a love for truth must not allow themselves to be satisfied with the subjective logic of "everyone has an opinion" as though every opinion is equally valid. Rubbish. Some opinions are absolutely invalid. And, frankly, until one can clearly show that the Bible condemns facial hair on men, such opinions will remain invalid and evidence of man made religion and commandments of men.

The Jews were all wrapped up in this error, and though mighty highly of themselves and their traditions. However, Jesus says,

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Even Paul speaks of legalistic commandments of men:

Colossians 2:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Thus, the beard standard as taught in most holiness circles is as unbiblical as the veneration of saints or the Rosary. The prohibition is a human construct.

And those who truly hunger for truth, and know their Bible, can see this clearly. And as more and more people research the issue, the only one's fooled are those wanting to be fooled. And the only one's tolerant of such an unbiblical requirement for ministry or fellowship, are those who stand to gain from it in some manner.

What's true is true. And the truth is, the Bible doesn't condemn beards or facial hair. That's the truth. Either the standard is biblical, or it isn't. I was discussing this with a man years ago, just before leaving the UPCI. I asked him about it plainly, I asked, "Is the standard BIBLICAL?" He answered, "While there isn't anything in the Bible condemning beards, it is our church's position that God expects men to be clean shaven." I said, "So, are you admitting that it is the tradition of your church and that the standard isn't biblical?" He repeated himself a couple times, and ended the conversation. This is about truth. While the man clearly had an opinion and a position, it cannot be said that his opinion or his position was based on Scripture. Therefore, it is merely a tradition of man. And to teach that one's soul is in danger over a beard, or to say that one called and anointed by God shouldn't be allowed to minister is... error.

So, yes. One might have a different "opinion". But their opinion differs from the position of Scripture. Until they cough up chapter and verse illustrating the condemnation of beards, their opinion is INVALID, and is merely a tradition of man.

That being said, any accusation of a "bad attitude or spirit" on the issue cannot be leveled at the one truthfully proclaiming that the Bible holds no prohibition. For such a one is absolutely right. The only ones who can be said to have a bad attitude or spirit on the issue are those being divisive because they are clinging to an unbiblical tradition of man.

Truth shall always triumph.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Great Post.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Serious question here:

Is the Oneness movement the only movement where this is an issue, or are there other groups, denoms, or organizations that go round and round about facial hair like ours seem to do?

My experience is pretty limited to only Oneness Apostolic Christianity, and so, I don't have any working knowledge of how others treat the topic. Any info or links would be appreciated, if shared. Thanks.

The Conservative Holiness Movement is pretty much a no-facial hair movement. However, some Church of God (non Pentecostal) holiness groups believe it's wrong NOT to have a full beard.

Trinitarian "Signs Following" holiness Pentecostals (aka serpent handlers) are also pretty much a no facial hair group. Oneness "Signs Following" Pentecostals are likewise. Although, some in the serpent handling groups, both trinitarian and Oneness, seem to be sporting 5 o'clock shadows lately...

Twoness Pentecostals (Sowderites or Gospel Assembly folks) are also clean shaven.

Jehovah's Witnesses frown on beards, most are clean shaven but I think some may have mustaches. Not elders, Pioneers, or anybody in authority though. (Subject to change, however.)

White holiness Pentecostals are generally clean shaven and frown on facial hair.

Old Order groups (Amish, Dunkers, Hutterites, Old Order Mennonites, etc) require beards but forbid mustaches.

Conservative Mennonites may or may not have facial hair (I've seen both here in my local area, some clean shaven, some with trimmed beards with mustache).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Serious question here:

Is the Oneness movement the only movement where this is an issue, or are there other groups, denoms, or organizations that go round and round about facial hair like ours seem to do?

My experience is pretty limited to only Oneness Apostolic Christianity, and so, I don't have any working knowledge of how others treat the topic. Any info or links would be appreciated, if shared. Thanks.

It has been an issue since 195 A.D. and Clement of Alexandria.
In 361 A.D. Julian the Apostate grew a beard to distinguish himself from Roman Christian emperors. So, throughout history it has been to beard or not to beard, that is the question. In early Christendom showed mosaics of a resurrected Jesus as a youth. New Testament clean shaven youth, while the Old was represented as bearded.

But we have no prohibition in the Bible against facial hair, or admonishment to grow facial hair.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

There's nothing in the bible specific about movies, tv, theater, sporting events, etc. Yet a lot of churches are against its members and especially its leadership watching or attending.

Pastors are not wrong for wanting a certain standard for leadership, be it a moral code or dress code.

The Bible has plenty to say about think upon, what we watch, and evil communications. The Bible teaches that we dress modestly and without excessive jewelry. It even admonishes long hair on women and short hair on men.

But the Bible says nothing about beards being sinful.

So, standards based on biblical principles, in my opinion, are acceptable. But a standard without any biblical foundation is just a standard for having a standard's sake.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

The same way they say, "no Bible against smoking and drugs, but I'm against them."

There is Bible for supporting standards that encourage sobriety and condemn drunkenness.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There is Bible for supporting standards that encourage sobriety and condemn drunkenness.

except for that pesky scripture that allows for the purchase of strong drink with tithes in the OT lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have never ever heard a UPCI pastor, or evangelist ever say that a beard was a sin. It goes along with the long uncut hair talisman, unicorns and flat earth positions which are supposedly preached in the UPCI.

Oh, come on. You know that many pastors have taught this down through the years. They've backed off of it as the internet has allowed greater ability to study and share information.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There is Bible for supporting standards that encourage sobriety and condemn drunkenness.

"Smoking and drugs." I know there are scriptures about drinking and drunkenness.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Bible has plenty to say about think upon, what we watch, and evil communications. The Bible teaches that we dress modestly and without excessive jewelry. It even admonishes long hair on women and short hair on men.

But there is no prohibition against tv, theatre, sporting events, etc. None. And yet most generally accept a church being against those things.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But the Bible says nothing about beards being sinful.

No, but most guys with beards are filled with vanity and pride. Those are sins. Look at some posts in this thread and you'll see vanity and pride. Guys don't grow beards for functionality, they grow them for vanity. They keep them trim and neat out of vanity and pride.

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, standards based on biblical principles, in my opinion, are acceptable. But a standard without any biblical foundation is just a standard for having a standard's sake.

[houston]

Do you cut and comb your hair out of vanity and pride?