BY THIS STANDARD-Greg L. Bahnsen

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bingo.

ALL human government is fallible, because ALL human beings are fallible.

But an elder who gets divorced is ineligible to be an elder? Maybe you can explain why Paul held fallible men to such a high standard? This is where the we have a divide in Churchanity. One group is to be good, and the ones in the pews have no such standard. Priests and nuns had a standard of attire of separation. Yet, the rank and file were not to be held to the same standard obviously making a division. Yet, Jesus, as well as Paul required people to hold a high standard. Woman caught in adultery is admonished to never sin again? Didn't Jesus know that this woman (prior to the Holy Ghost outpouring) was fallible? Anyway, my dear old dad, the atheist would roar with laughter. He use to say that Christians are the only group who are constantly apologizing for what is found in their holy book. Later I would find that ecclesiastically lazy people would refute the Bible by contradicting the Bible. Mainly because they were jacked up. So religiously careless that they fell short. Therefore justified it by saying that the Bible never expected them to live an exceptionally clean life. But then the astute atheist sticks 1 John 3:8 in their face, and then asks, what about this? Fallible Devil Worshippers?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I didn’t say so. I don’t even believe so. What do you believe?

Tithemonkey, weren't you taught that Jesus will physically rule and reign on earth for a thousand years? If the answer is yes, then the Jews will get what they originally sought.

[Amanah]

Theonomy is saying that the State should use God's law as the standard instead of human reasoning.

So, you would not legalize what is contrary to the Bible such as abortion and gay marriage.

Also, you don't teach your children anti Christian values such as the government schools are teaching.
It is the parents responsibility to teach their children Christian values. Sending kids to public school is sin.

A person's property is inviolate, it can't be stolen by the state via taxation for the purpose of funding antichrist schools, or redistribution of wealth.

Punishment for violating the commandments would be restitution or capital punishment.
Murder, rape, and human trafficking would be capital crimes. You would need 2 or more witnesses to the crime to prosecute.

Humans are fallible and make mistakes whether they are legislating socialism/human reasoning or Biblical law. Biblical law is a superior stating point.

Also, the bible says that Jesus is reigning now through the church. (Ephesians 1)

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Lawsuits Among Believers
1 Corinthians 6:1-6
6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people?
2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church?
5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

A kingdom of this world is what the Jews were looking for. They were looking for an earthly king that would rule an earthly kingdom. They failed to recognize the messiah because He didn’t fit their expectations.

This was already addressed earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Esaias

John 19:7-15 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (8) When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid; (9) And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. (10) Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? (11) Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (12) And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar. (13) When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. (14) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! (15) But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Matthew 21:33-39 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: (34) And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. (35) And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. (36) Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. (37) But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. (38) But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. (39) And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

These passages show the real reason why the Jews rejected Christ. It wasn't because "they were looking for an earthly ruler". It was because they realised that Jesus was a threat to their own power and position.

This idea that Christ is not an earthly ruler is totally and completely unbibical:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus has been given all authority (dominion, rule) in heaven AND IN EARTH.
Over whom is Jesus reigning?

Luke 1:30-33 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. (31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The House of Jacob (the reunited Houses of Israel and Judah) are the immediate subjects of the Kingship, rule, and authority of Jesus Christ. He is "Christ" because He is the rightful heir to the throne of David. He rules over Israel, now, today. And Israel (New Covenant Israel, that is) is here on the earth, under His authority, jurisdiction, governance, rule, dominion, and power.

The idea that "Jesus reigns in heaven, but unregenerate men are to reign here on the earth" is completely unbiblical, unchristian, defeatist, and was in fact devised by the enemies of Christ for the specific purpose of convincing God's people to submit to ungodly government rather than seeking first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. To seek the Kingdom of God FIRST means more than just seeking His Kingdom before one sought other things, it means the Kingdom is in the primary position, it is PRIMARY, first, the head, the source, the foundation, the main thing.

The Kingdom of God is the dominion or rule of God. It is not some feel good religious pious warm fuzzies in the belly derived from introspective devotional exercises. It is the real, actual submission of the individual to the Law-Word of the King. The New Covenant is the writing of the laws of God into the hearts and minds of His people, producing their actual obedience and "doing" of the things contained in the law of God:

Hebrews 8:8-10 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Romans 2:13-15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (15) Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)


Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The carnal mind is not subject (submitted to) the law of God, and cannot be (because it is enmity against God, in spite of its protestations to the contrary). Such persons cannot please God. Those who have the Spirit, have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in themselves, they are not in the flesh (are not carnal, and thus are in fact submitted to the law of God), and belong to Christ.

The mission of the church to is to disciple all nations (all ethnic groupings), teaching them to obey Christ in all things. That is, teaching the nations to submit to the Word-law of God under the Headship of Jesus the Messiah. that includes not only the personal, individual and household conversion of individual people and their families to Christ, but also includes the proclamation of the good news of God's Kingdom rule to ALL creatures. This includes the civil magistrate or "state" authorities:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The manifold wisdom of God is to be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places, by the church. That is one of the primary missions of the church. The powers and principalities in heavenly places are the civil magistrate:

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

The Gospel is intrinsically theonomic. The "reconstruction" of secular society is nothing else than the advancing influence of the Kingdom of God through its members (the church) upon every single sphere of human life and activity: the individual, the family, the nation.

Now, some folks who claim the name of Christian don't want that. They don't want to see the Kingdom of God advance. They don't want society to reflect God's will, they really don't want God's will to be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven. They certainly don't want anybody looking to God's Word for advice or instruction or wisdom for society. They are Pietists, they believe everything is just between the individual and God alone, with no other considerations.

Yet, most of them are hypocritical, in that they often go to the Bible for instruction in managing their families and raising their children. Well, they do it partially, because they ignore the Bible's instructions concerning the claims of God upon the nations, upon rulers, and upon magistrates:

Psalms 2:1-12 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? (2) The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, (3) Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (4) He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. (5) Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. (6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (8) Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. (9) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. (10) Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. (11) Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. (12) Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Yes, indeed, "blessed are all they that put their trust in Him." Including those in governmental positions.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Seems inconsistent with Romans 8:3-4

3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according.

"Weakened by the flesh" how? By the flesh leading to fleshly failure, error in judgement, and in the failing of the law which led Christ to the cross to perfect salvation for all mankind.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

It is good that a nation follow the ten commandments- which are the source of "natural law", and that it follow Christ. It ought not to contrive to compel by law persons to be "Christian" as this is in opposition to Gods will to have beings that worship in faith and free will.

Men fail as governors because they failed at even keeping one law, to not eat of the tree of knowledge. To say that i support government based on failed philosophy of man is incorrect. To say that I do not support a reconstructive government based on the law of Isreal is eqially incorrect. I support only governments limited to the requirement of keeping mans failure from becoming overriding of mankind.

All government must be severely limited, because man will inevitably fail it. Thonomic, or Secular humanist, the only difference I can see will be the length of time before it fails.

I say you seek power over men because you support a government with very strong power , supported by a beleif that it is doing the will of God. Such a thing goes equally wrong as does godless communism because great power is centralized in zealots or in a set f persons as Orwell noted that think they are "more equal than others"

Paul shows us that he himself refusec to use power he might rightfully have had,
2 Thessalonians 3:9 "It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate." (ESV)
But chose to be an example rather than a rod of correction. You cannot possibly deny that all of history shows us humanity is much less likely to follow Pauls example - that men who desire power often do so for prideful, or otherwise sinful intent. And that high ideals succumb to low base desires with ease.....David observing a woman bathing.....leads to proxy murder....as an example.

I dont give a fat rats tail what form you choose- government should be limited more even than its subjects.

You are looking to the Bible to provide guidance on what you think authority - both ecclesiastical, and secular - should look like. Shame shame, you closet theonomist....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

This was already addressed earlier in this thread:



These passages show the real reason why the Jews rejected Christ. It wasn't because "they were looking for an earthly ruler". It was because they realised that Jesus was a threat to their own power and position.

This idea that Christ is not an earthly ruler is totally and completely unbibical:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus has been given all authority (dominion, rule) in heaven AND IN EARTH.
Over whom is Jesus reigning?

Luke 1:30-33 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. (31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The House of Jacob (the reunited Houses of Israel and Judah) are the immediate subjects of the Kingship, rule, and authority of Jesus Christ. He is "Christ" because He is the rightful heir to the throne of David. He rules over Israel, now, today. And Israel (New Covenant Israel, that is) is here on the earth, under His authority, jurisdiction, governance, rule, dominion, and power.

The idea that "Jesus reigns in heaven, but unregenerate men are to reign here on the earth" is completely unbiblical, unchristian, defeatist, and was in fact devised by the enemies of Christ for the specific purpose of convincing God's people to submit to ungodly government rather than seeking first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. To seek the Kingdom of God FIRST means more than just seeking His Kingdom before one sought other things, it means the Kingdom is in the primary position, it is PRIMARY, first, the head, the source, the foundation, the main thing.

The Kingdom of God is the dominion or rule of God. It is not some feel good religious pious warm fuzzies in the belly derived from introspective devotional exercises. It is the real, actual submission of the individual to the Law-Word of the King. The New Covenant is the writing of the laws of God into the hearts and minds of His people, producing their actual obedience and "doing" of the things contained in the law of God:

Hebrews 8:8-10 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Romans 2:13-15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (15) Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another


Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The carnal mind is not subject (submitted to) the law of God, and cannot be (because it is enmity against God, in spite of its protestations to the contrary). Such persons cannot please God. Those who have the Spirit, have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in themselves, they are not in the flesh (are not carnal, and thus are in fact submitted to the law of God), and belong to Christ.

The mission of the church to is to disciple all nations (all ethnic groupings), teaching them to obey Christ in all things. That is, teaching the nations to submit to the Word-law of God under the Headship of Jesus the Messiah. that includes not only the personal, individual and household conversion of individual people and their families to Christ, but also includes the proclamation of the good news of God's Kingdom rule to ALL creatures. This includes the civil magistrate or "state" authorities:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The manifold wisdom of God is to be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places, by the church. That is one of the primary missions of the church. The powers and principalities in heavenly places are the civil magistrate:

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

The Gospel is intrinsically theonomic. The "reconstruction" of secular society is nothing else than the advancing influence of the Kingdom of God through its members (the church) upon every single sphere of human life and activity: the individual, the family, the nation.

Now, some folks who claim the name of Christian don't want that. They don't want to see the Kingdom of God advance. They don't want society to reflect God's will, they really don't want God's will to be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven. They certainly don't want anybody looking to God's Word for advice or instruction or wisdom for society. They are Pietists, they believe everything is just between the individual and God alone, with no other considerations.

Yet, most of them are hypocritical, in that they often go to the Bible for instruction in managing their families and raising their children. Well, they do it partially, because they ignore the Bible's instructions concerning the claims of God upon the nations, upon rulers, and upon magistrates:

Psalms 2:1-12 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? (2) The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, (3) Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (4) He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. (5) Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. (6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (8) Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. (9) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. (10) Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. (11) Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. (12) Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Yes, indeed, "blessed are all they that put their trust in Him." Including those in governmental positions.

The above is the purpose of Christianity!!!!

My lands, I can't understand why no one is getting what is found in the above post.

The problem seems that the kingdom is a carrot on the stick. No one is required to do anything until after a resurrection, and they are all feeding apples to tigers in a Millennial kingdom. So, we let the house go to hell, while we look for a pie in the sky in some future day. Meanwhile we circle the drain, say it is supposed to be this way. It is God's manifest destiny for everything to be deep sixed. We aren't supposed to convert the world to Christ, don't be so stupid. Everything is supposed to become sinful, and wretched.

That isn't good news, that is pretty bad news.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The above is the purpose of Christianity!!!!

My lands, I can't understand why no one is getting what is found in the above post.

The problem seems that the kingdom is a carrot on the stick. No one is required to do anything until after a resurrection, and they are all feeding apples to tigers in a Millennial kingdom. So, we let the house go to hell, while we look for a pie in the sky in some future day. Meanwhile we circle the drain, say it is supposed to be this way. It is God's manifest destiny for everything to be deep sixed. We aren't supposed to convert the world to Christ, don't be so stupid. Everything is supposed to become sinful, and wretched.

That isn't good news, that is pretty bad news.

It's bad theology that has surfaced several times in historical movements: anabaptism, Pietism, Quietism, futurism, dispensationalism... all of which have one thing in common: they convince Christians to retreat to the interior of the meeting house to be neutered by the Babylonians and to be taught all the wisdom of the Chaldeans. No wonder we need revival in every generation, each generation tosses their kids to the wolves of Moloch in the name of Jesus!

Sad.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's bad theology that has surfaced several times in historical movements: anabaptism, Pietism, Quietism, futurism, dispensationalism... all of which have one thing in common: they convince Christians to retreat to the interior of the meeting house to be neutered by the Babylonians and to be taught all the wisdom of the Chaldeans. No wonder we need revival in every generation, each generation tosses their kids to the wolves of Moloch in the name of Jesus!

Sad.

Amen, when will we ever learn.

[Esaias]

I think a LOT of the resistance to any of this by Christians is due to the multi-generational belief in dispensationalism, futurism, and a twisted version of premillennialism as taught by futurists. The idea has been preached and teached (!) so long that Jesus doesn't actually reign now, that He will only "reign in the millennial". The belief is "it's just gonna get worse and worse and then the end shall come".

Now, I'm not saying everything is just gonna get better and better. I think we often overlook the conditional nature of much of prophecy. Things can get better - or things can get worse. Since the church is the salt and light of the world, whether things get better or worse is largely dependent on or at least GREATLY influenced by how the church discharges her mission.

A church that believes everything is prophesied to go down the drain and then the end shall come isn't going to be very useful. It becomes salt that has lost its flavour and seasoning capability, and is essentially good for nothing and cast out and trodden under foot of men. Gee, does that sound familiar? Does that, in fact, not describe much of the condition of the American church in this hour? Not every assembly, but IN GENERAL? Is the church being essentially trodden under foot (despised and rejected) by unregenerate men in this day and hour? Just take a look around.

But need it be this way? Absolutely not. God forbid! May it never be! A great many churches have allowed false doctrine, particularly as regards the present vs future reign of Christ, to render them relatively impotent. The early church turned the world upside down. We can't even figure out if Christ has a crown on His head or not?

What is needed is to return to the old paths, the original doctrine, a bold declaration of the good news of the KINGDOM! Christ reigns NOW, He is on the throne, He is at the right hand of power, He is exalted and glorified! We ought to be acting like it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think a LOT of the resistance to any of this by Christians is due to the multi-generational belief in dispensationalism, futurism, and a twisted version of premillennialism as taught by futurists. The idea has been preached and teached (!) so long that Jesus doesn't actually reign now, that He will only "reign in the millennial". The belief is "it's just gonna get worse and worse and then the end shall come".

Now, I'm not saying everything is just gonna get better and better. I think we often overlook the conditional nature of much of prophecy. Things can get better - or things can get worse. Since the church is the salt and light of the world, whether things get better or worse is largely dependent on or at least GREATLY influenced by how the church discharges her mission.

A church that believes everything is prophesied to go down the drain and then the end shall come isn't going to be very useful. It becomes salt that has lost its flavour and seasoning capability, and is essentially good for nothing and cast out and trodden under foot of men. Gee, does that sound familiar? Does that, in fact, not describe much of the condition of the American church in this hour? Not every assembly, but IN GENERAL? Is the church being essentially trodden under foot (despised and rejected) by unregenerate men in this day and hour? Just take a look around.

But need it be this way? Absolutely not. God forbid! May it never be! A great many churches have allowed false doctrine, particularly as regards the present vs future reign of Christ, to render them relatively impotent. The early church turned the world upside down. We can't even figure out if Christ has a crown on His head or not?

What is needed is to return to the old paths, the original doctrine, a bold declaration of the good news of the KINGDOM! Christ reigns NOW, He is on the throne, He is at the right hand of power, He is exalted and glorified! We ought to be acting like it.

Now That is What I'm Talking About!!!!!