Question?

[votivesoul]

A final thought:

Sometimes, but not always, those who preach the loudest against what they think is fear-mongering in the church, is because deep down, they are terrified that they are wrong, and so, are trying desperately to assuage themselves from what the Bible calls "a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:27), simply because they have, in truth, left the Lord and they know it.

[CC1]

I go to a church that teaches the full Bible plan of salvation.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, ha ha, that is droll--i mean, really; you got jokes now?

I really do not know who you are addressing.... You might quote us or as by name to be sure bro.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

A final thought:

Sometimes, but not always, those who preach the loudest against what they think is fear-mongering in the church, is because deep down, they are terrified that they are wrong, and so, are trying desperately to assuage themselves from what the Bible calls "a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:27), simply because they have, in truth, left the Lord and they know it.

Really?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Really?

Yes. I'm surprised it's even up for questioning.

Or else the author of Hebrews is talking uninspired nonsense.

[shazeep]

while i'm sure that occurs, i think it is inevitably more of a drive-by thing, and could be characterized more as like sniping when the opportunity presented itself, and less a dedicated seeking out of former peers and associates for discussion. I was led here because it seemed to me that anyone online who chose to come to a Christian forum would be genuinely seeking God, and thus had the best chance of changing my mind.

i never actually abandoned Pentecostalism, and my experiences with that church have all been learning ones--but i am in the unique position of having moved frequently throughout my life, and so i was always kind of in 'guest mode,' perhaps. But i have encountered those you describe, who have rejected the church wholesale, and now call themselves atheist, or agnostic...but i learned somewhere along the way that God is not going to be asking anyone what religion they are; that is for children.

i also learned, in applying (unconsciously, really) Scripture in my travels, that we are all deceived some kind of way; some more than others. We happen to be at the top of the food chain, and the most deception is here; from where i come. When did I came that you might have life, and more abundantly turn in to I can't wait to die, and go to heaven? I made it a point to find out when, and why. The religious model we are served as a way to God is a pathetic--even laughable--death centered distortion of Scripture; and still i found some pale icon of Christ in it. It was enough to set me on a path.

Now, i don't too much care about the multitudes of Christians-in-name-only, proselytized-saved-baptized and done; but i do feel for those who started just like me. And i'm here to tell you that if you are seeking God, there is an enemy out to see that this does not happen for you, and he is more devious than many will ever know. He runs your religion--whatever name it goes by--and i have plenty of proof for that--Scripture, even--but it is evident in your church's name, even--unless it is "Christian Church."

Know that if you are truly seeking God, He will not let you wander far off of the path. The dogma fed you is strong, and compelling; the moreso because you may have been absorbing it from birth. Those first questing steps may be scary; especially if peers are egging you off. But is God egging you off? Can you even hear Him, through the noise?

See that there are indicators, if you will but see; ignoring certain questions, claiming to not understand--but not asking for clarification--turning your head from some 'unpleasantness.' Righteous indignation. The overwhelming desire to point and label something; when you do not know. Or even if you do, actually. Quoting Scripture at someone over filling their needs, when that is in your power. A disapproving frown over an understanding smile.

Thank you, God, that i am like the rest of men (T Merton), and no longer so privileged.

[shazeep]

"Respect my Authoritay" is another, prolly the biggest one. If anyone gives you this kind of reply, rather than a straight answer, run like the wind. The ones whose authority should be respected will never even suggest this to you; and the ones even suggesting this are doing so because they have no clue, but don't want to admit it. Without exceptions. No one knows God better than you do; we are all groping around in darkness there, attempting to describe an elephant.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Sean

I really do not know who you are addressing.... You might quote us or as by name to be sure bro.

ok to this i would reply that i am pretty autistic; so whenever this happens, i have a little kid come and read it, to see if it makes sense to them. A...10 year old, in this case, and she is having no problems here. Often i am addressing whomever is reading. So again, with the understanding that my shorthand might get too short, or my flipping from 1st to 2nd to 3rd person or whatever makes something unintelligible, my apologies, as i know i'm bad at that. But the concepts above stand on their own, regardless of tense, so i'm not sure where the disconnect comes in.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by shazeep

"Respect my Authoritay" is another, prolly the biggest one. If anyone gives you this kind of reply, rather than a straight answer, run like the wind. The ones whose authority should be respected will never even suggest this to you; and the ones even suggesting this are doing so because they have no clue, but don't want to admit it.

I find this pretty agreeable.

Originally Posted by shazeep

Without exceptions. No one knows God better than you do; we are all groping around in darkness there, attempting to describe an elephant.

Strongly disagree with this. I don't think we all equally know God. The Bible is pretty clear that some people are walking in gross darkness and have no knowledge of God (sans that instinctive knowledge common to all that is given us in conscience).

[shazeep]

Yes, but they will never come and read that post, so i figured it was safe! Among those who seek God, there is no one who knows God any better than you. They may have a better relationship with God, and may actually have some knowledge that you do not possess, but that seems to inevitably work both ways, noticed that?