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  #361  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:33 AM
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freeatlast freeatlast is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

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Originally Posted by committed View Post
Could you perhaps enlighten me on what it is referring to?
What does it means when it says a woman should not put on that which pertains to a man?
I'd really like to know.
Look up in a hebrew dictionary and you will find that man in this verse is from the hebrew word Geber.

A. The first phrase, that which pertaineth - the phrase that which pertaineth is represented in the Hebrew by one word, the word keli, and it most generally means a manufactured article. It is most often translated as some sort of weapon or armor.

B. The phrase translated unto a man is also represented in the Hebrew language by a single word - gibbor.

1. Here's a few references to the word gibbor -- Strong's, 1368 gibbor, ghib-bore; from 1397 geber gheh'ber, a valiant man or warrior, powerful: by implication warrior, tyrant: --champion, chief, excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one) strong (man), valiant man.

2. Gesenius 1368 author’s references and Hebrew words omitted (1) strong, mighty, impetuous, used of a hunter, commonly of an impetuous soldier, a hero, a mighty king (Alexander the Great), a mighty hero. [The mighty God: Christ is spoken of] these are the heroes, those who were famous of old; the lion is a hero among the beasts; also used of a soldier generally, a mighty warrior, Used of God, Jehovah (is) strong and mighty, Jehovah (is) mighty in battle....(2) a chief, a military leader, the commander of soldiers and the soldier. Used generally of a chief. (3) in a bad sense, proud, a tyrant, like the Arab.

3. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: 310 (condensed) (ga bar) prevail, be mighty, have strength, be great. Derivatives, man, mighty man. might. lady, queen. .... The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior....(RSV often translates "warrior") The heroes or champions among the armed forces.

4. Wigrams, p. 289, 290, translated mighty men, mighty one, mighty hunter, mighty, mighty man, mighty men, strong, valiant men, mightiest, mighty of valour, strong man, giant, as a strong man, the Mighty God, the mighty. The only instance it is translated as man is in Du 22:5. Not so translated in any other place.

You should be able to conclude that Gibbor does’nt refer to just ordinary man but rather refers to a man of war who wore manufactured armaments.

Historical elements that will help us in understanding this passage.

Some Israel’s pagan enemies employed a practice, before going into battle of appeasing their gods favor by exchanging their armaments with the women and the men putting on the clothing of their women and having orgy style celebrations.

These celebrations were IDOLATROUS in nature, hence forth the warning in against this ABOMINATION in Duet 22:5.

It was not the exchange of garments that was idolatrous but the worship of idols that took place in this pagan celebrations.

Of course you could just read Dt. 22:5 out of the KJV and say it means that women can’t wear pants.

That’s easier than studying to find the real meaning and that way we get to make up another goofy legalistic rule to put upon our women.

You might take greek hebew dictionary and look up all the different words that get just get translated into our english Man.

Each word that is translated man has a very different meaning .
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  #362  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:40 AM
edjen01 edjen01 is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

this doctrine...errr...document is ridiculous. I am a member of the UPCI and won't sign it. But after reading it and looking at the signers, I was a bit confused. I know, talk with, vacation with, fish, hunt, cruise with...some members who have signed this...and I have personally witnessed them NOT upholding this standard...so I asked them about it. I found that some were told that this was a district thing(the whole district was suppose to sign)...some just signed & didn't read it...some were told it was just the Articles of Faith in fancy writing...some were afraid they'd lose meetings if they didn't sign...some were afraid of district isolation...and the reasons go on and on. It sort of made me sick.

I my opinion...this doctrine is not consistant with the foundational doctrines of the UPCI. While I am to young to personally know the founders...some were my family members, others very close friends of my family...and while there were some who believed this...there were a good number who did not. But one things for sure...they gave each other "grace" when it came to the issues of holiness...something that I believe is sorely lacking.

Just my 2 cents.
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  #363  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:44 AM
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rgcraig rgcraig is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by edjen01 View Post
this doctrine...errr...document is ridiculous. I am a member of the UPCI and won't sign it. But after reading it and looking at the signers, I was a bit confused. I know, talk with, vacation with, fish, hunt, cruise with...some members who have signed this...and I have personally witnessed them NOT upholding this standard...so I asked them about it. I found that some were told that this was a district thing(the whole district was suppose to sign)...some just signed & didn't read it...some were told it was just the Articles of Faith in fancy writing...some were afraid they'd lose meetings if they didn't sign...some were afraid of district isolation...and the reasons go on and on. It sort of made me sick.

I my opinion...this doctrine is not consistant with the foundational doctrines of the UPCI. While I am to young to personally know the founders...some were my family members, others very close friends of my family...and while there were some who believed this...there were a good number who did not. But one things for sure...they gave each other "grace" when it came to the issues of holiness...something that I believe is sorely lacking.

Just my 2 cents.
And a good two cents it is!
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  #364  
Old 10-01-2009, 08:44 AM
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by edjen01 View Post
this doctrine...errr...document is ridiculous. I am a member of the UPCI and won't sign it. But after reading it and looking at the signers, I was a bit confused. I know, talk with, vacation with, fish, hunt, cruise with...some members who have signed this...and I have personally witnessed them NOT upholding this standard...so I asked them about it. I found that some were told that this was a district thing(the whole district was suppose to sign)...some just signed & didn't read it...some were told it was just the Articles of Faith in fancy writing...some were afraid they'd lose meetings if they didn't sign...some were afraid of district isolation...and the reasons go on and on. It sort of made me sick.
Hopefully they will ask to have their names removed.
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  #365  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:12 AM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
Oh, I just meant that knees are ugly.
I can agree with that statement!!
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  #366  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:17 AM
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

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I can agree with that statement!!
PM incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #367  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:32 AM
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by edjen01 View Post
this doctrine...errr...document is ridiculous. I am a member of the UPCI and won't sign it. But after reading it and looking at the signers, I was a bit confused. I know, talk with, vacation with, fish, hunt, cruise with...some members who have signed this...and I have personally witnessed them NOT upholding this standard...so I asked them about it. I found that some were told that this was a district thing(the whole district was suppose to sign)...some just signed & didn't read it...some were told it was just the Articles of Faith in fancy writing...some were afraid they'd lose meetings if they didn't sign...some were afraid of district isolation...and the reasons go on and on. It sort of made me sick.

I my opinion...this doctrine is not consistant with the foundational doctrines of the UPCI. While I am to young to personally know the founders...some were my family members, others very close friends of my family...and while there were some who believed this...there were a good number who did not. But one things for sure...they gave each other "grace" when it came to the issues of holiness...something that I believe is sorely lacking.

Just my 2 cents.
I was going to post something along these lines earlier in the discussion, but opted out. LOL! I believe you are correct. I know many do it to keep the unity and because they govern their church the way they want to - as it should be.

I can see, after this thread has evolved, why PapaBear hasn't answered my question. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have either. I asked in sincerity, but I see guns raised for anything he may want to say. So, I open the invitation to him to PM me, if he would feel so inclined. If he doesn't, then I am fine with that also.
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  #368  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:47 AM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
I can agree with that statement!!
I have been corrected. SOME men's knees are ugly. LOL!
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  #369  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:48 AM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Hopefully, the reason why he isn't answering is because he's at GC for the week and might not have time to write as he'd like. I'm sure he'll be forthcoming in his responses when he's able.
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  #370  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:49 AM
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Re: My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
I have been corrected. SOME men's knees are ugly. LOL!
I wouldn't know - Nurse H1!!

Last edited by Pressing-On; 10-01-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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