Apostoic worship??

[Amanah]

Aquila, you seem to be drifting off in the wrong direction somehow.

Brothers on this forum have warned you and are warning you, take it to heart and examine your direction/beliefs.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Since the 1990s there has been an increased focus on mysticism within various segments of Christianity. Bordering on the esoteric, these mystical experiences broaden the division between a "factual faith" and a "felt faith," and threaten to replace sound biblical teaching with emotion-driven response. Soaking prayer is one such mystical activity. It is described as resting in God's presence. This is accomplished by playing some gentle worship songs, either sitting or lying down, and praying short, simple prayers for an extended period of time, but otherwise keeping your mind free of other thoughts. At the point when you sense God's presence through some type of manifestation like tingling skin, a sensation of heat or cold, or even a gentle wind seemingly blowing through your body, you are to just "soak" in that presence.

Although that might sound a little strange to some, it does not immediately come across as being necessarily bad. However, the rule by which we measure our experiences in life is the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and when soaking prayer is examined accordingly, we find that it comes up wanting for biblical support. Nowhere in the Bible can a model of prayer be found that soaking prayer follows.

Prayer in its simplest form in the Bible is calling on the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26), and in each instance where it is found in Scripture, it is descriptive of communicating with God. Soaking prayer starts that way, but quickly devolves into a trance-like meditative state. This is when soaking prayer ceases to be biblical and becomes more like a New Age practice or something an adherent of Hinduism would participate in.

There is no denying that experiencing the presence of God can be powerful and life changing. It is not the goal of soaking prayer that is biblically errant; it is its methodology. Soaking prayer focuses on obtaining a spiritual experience by seeking out the presence of God through mystical exercises. In this it is similar to ”contemplative prayer” and contemplative spirituality, which are equally unbiblical. Biblical prayer is talking to God with His will in mind (1 John 5:14). A biblically praying believer already understands that God's presence is always with him (Psalm 139:7; Matthew 28:20; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Thessalonians 4:8; 2 Timothy 1:14), and he doesn’t need to experience any type of physical sensation to prove it.

https://www.gotquestions.org/soaking-prayer.html

So, let me make sure I understand...

1.) No playing gentle worship music to relax to.
2.) No sitting or lying down (I'd like to see this lol).
3.) No short, simple prayers over an extended period of time.
4.) No keeping one's mind free of distracting thoughts.
5.) No manifestations of God's presence that can be sensed or felt.
6.) No "soaking" or tarrying in such an experience.
7.) No contemplation regarding God or biblical truths.
8.) No trance-like spiritual states containing ecstatic spiritual experiences.

Got it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila, you seem to be drifting off in the wrong direction somehow.

Brothers on this forum have warned you and are warning you, take it to heart and examine your direction/beliefs.

I think these brothers are overreacting.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

This is like a revision of Tommy Tenney’s God Chasers.

Never read it. It came out back when I was rock solid UPCI or bust. lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Aquila doesn't care. You can find all the evidence you want showing it's rotten at the core, he'll just claim they were looking our way. Because, per him Pentecostals have always been mystics and performed contemplative and centering new age and occult junk.

Hey, is this the UFO thread?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

That's a blatant mischaracterization of what's been said here.

In a nutshell it's this: worship isn't about the "feelz." It's not about music at all. It certainly isn't occult practices such as centering, contemplative prayer, soaking, burning candles or incense while mumbling a mantra.

#StopIt

Maybe you haven't argued for everything noted. But you've argued for some of it. The other things are contributions I've pulled from others as they brow beat Michael over liking music from a church that was deemed to be too "charismatic" or something.

I think some throw the occult accusation around far too much for it to have any serious weight. But based on your post above, now we can add the following to the list:

1.) No "feelz". Feelz are dangerous. (Do "feelz" mean "feelings"?)
2.) No seeking to feel centered. Being centered in prayer is dangerous.
3.) No contemplation regarding God or the truths of the Bible. Contemplation is dangerous.
4.) No candles. Candles are dangerous.
5.) No incense. Incense is dangerous.

Got it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think these brothers are overreacting.

You should use that as your signature line.

Chris, you come up with some strange ideas, but they aren't for us. They are meant for new converts, or people who are struggling with their faith, They are lurking, and come across your hoo doo voo doo, and drink from the well. If they are currently attending a church they have a pastor who God willing will direct them accordingly. If not, then I pray God's mercy be upon them.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Aquila doesn't care. You can find all the evidence you want showing it's rotten at the core, he'll just claim they were looking our way. Because, per him Pentecostals have always been mystics and performed contemplative and centering new age and occult junk.

Actually, I do care. I think I just have a different perspective.

There is a difference between the term "mystic" as used in Christian history and "mystic" as used in the New Age. They are two TOTALLY different things. Those who confuse the two are only showing that they don't know what they are talking about.

The New Age certainly does contain counterfeit experiences, practices, etc. But a counterfeit is not a counterfeit unless it is attempting to duplicate the real thing. For example, "clairesentience" as described by many in the New Age is nothing more than a counterfeit of the "gift of knowledge". That doesn't mean that those with the gift of knowledge are witches or New Agers.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Maybe you haven't argued for everything noted. But you've argued for some of it. The other things are contributions I've pulled from others as they brow beat Michael over liking music from a church that was deemed to be too "charismatic" or something.

I think some throw the occult accusation around far too much for it to have any serious weight. But based on your post above, now we can add the following to the list:

1.) No "feelz". Feelz are dangerous. (Do "feelz" mean "feelings"?)
2.) No seeking to feel centered. Being centered in prayer is dangerous.
3.) No contemplation regarding God or the truths of the Bible. Contemplation is dangerous.
4.) No candles. Candles are dangerous.
5.) No incense. Incense is dangerous.

Got it.

He isn't throwing anything around flippantly. Neither was Esaias when he used the word witch. You know what they meant, and why they posted what they posted. The whole soaked in the word stuff is a little weird.

Sadly, Huston's meme is what comes to mind.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hey, is this the UFO thread?

No, this isn't the UFO thread.

The UFO thread is only a hypothetical inquiry based on the statements made by the former director of AATIP. It was just for fun.

Worship, however, is a bit more serious.

The way Michael was treated on this thread was deplorable. Why was he treated that way just because he liked a song (or style of music) from IHOP or something?