Did everyone?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

If I can keep the focus on Acts 2:38.....

Does the phrase "and ye SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" come as an unconditional promise to those who adhere to the preceding words of the passage?

Have ALL who have repented and been baptized in Jesus Name received the gift of the Holy Ghost?

If we say, NO, then we really do not believe in Acts 2:38 as much as we thought do we?

If we count Peter's words as being inspired of God, then yes, everyone who has repented and been baptized in Jesus name should expect to recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

If they have not, then I believe something is hindering their faith.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Adino

Good job, freeatlast. You went right to the point.

100% agree that not everyone they have seen repent and be baptized in Jesus name has spoken in tongues YET Acts 2:38 plainly states that those who repent and are baptized SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Everyone who repents and is baptized in Jesus name SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since all who've repented and have been baptized in Jesus name have not spoken in tongues, it follows that either:

A) The author was in error and NOT ALL who repent and are baptized in Jesus name SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

or...

B) The author was correct and all who repent and are baptized in Jesus name indeed SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost but this does not mean they will ALL speak in tongues.

I, personally, choose "B" because I believe Acts 2:38.

If the evidential tongues doctrine is true, why have NOT ALL spoken in tongues who have repented and have been baptized in Jesus name?

I like the Chinese version of Acts 2:38. The word translated "Shall" is "yut ding wui" which means "definitely will". So there is no question as to whether one will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost or not.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I like the Chinese version of Acts 2:38. The word translated "Shall" is "yut ding wui" which means "definitely will". So there is no question as to whether one will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost or not.

Is this then in conflict with those who see the events of "repentance & baptism" and reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit as synonymous events?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by philjones

Can one ultimately be saved without speaking in tongues?

Just curious.

Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

How about this:

a. Tongues is the only acceptable initial evidence
b. Speaking in tongues was/is a normal experience (perhaps not the only one) that follows the Holy Spirit baptism.

Of these 2 I would go with b.

Yes amoung pentecostals tongues is the only acceptable initial evidence, the bible don't say tongues is the initial evidence,how about what God said ?

Believe what God says NOT man.God said they would prophesy and have dreams and visions when he pours out his Spirit.Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

Good job, freeatlast. You went right to the point.

100% agree that not everyone they have seen repent and be baptized in Jesus name has spoken in tongues YET Acts 2:38 plainly states that those who repent and are baptized SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Everyone who repents and is baptized in Jesus name SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since all who've repented and have been baptized in Jesus name have not spoken in tongues, it follows that either:

A) The author was in error and NOT ALL who repent and are baptized in Jesus name SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

or...

B) The author was correct and all who repent and are baptized in Jesus name indeed SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost but this does not mean they will ALL speak in tongues.

I, personally, choose "B" because I believe Acts 2:38.

If the evidential tongues doctrine is true, why have NOT ALL spoken in tongues who have repented and have been baptized in Jesus name?

This tongue talking was referred to as prophecy,Why ? Because the people understood what was being said.They were giving prophecy to these people in their own tongue.The following scripture will teach us this.

Acts2:

1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13: Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14: But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

[stmatthew]

During Phillips revival meeting at Samaria, those present had repented of their sins, and Phillip had baptized them. But the bible states very plainly that they had not received the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

It was possibly days or even weeks (we do not know for sure how long) before Peter and John arrived and started a Holy Ghost rally.


The above is proof enough that the Holy Ghost is given in Gods time, and not mans. It simply states that it SHALL be given, but that does not mean it is automatic upon repentance and water baptism.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Not everybody did, but everybody should.

Why ?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Adino, if you present that repentance and baptism alone show the infilling of the Holy Ghost, how do you dismiss the argument presented that tongues is evidence of the infilling? Likewise, what do you present for evidence of a person having the infilling?

Where does the word say tongues is the evidence ? Even Jesus said these signs shall follow.We know all these signs don't follow in everyones lives.A person can speak in tongues and never cast out devils.A person can cast out devils and never speak in tongues.

Different signs follow in each persons life.Mark16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I don't think Luke was incorrect, is that what you wanted to hear? BTW, I do believe one should speak in tongues for me to actually believe they are filled with the HG.

I think you said it right.We see here the apostles were astonished because God gave the gentiles the Holy Ghost.We see in the scripture that tongues is a sign to the unbelievers.Who was the unbelievers here ? The ones who didn't believe God gave the Holy Ghost to the gentiles,they were unbelievers because they didn't believe God was giving the Holy Ghost to the gentiles.So tongues was a sign to the apostles that God gave the Holy Ghost to the gentiles.You see the apostles were not unbelievers in that they didn't believe in God but they were unbelievers because they didn't believe God was giving the Holy Ghost to the gentiles.So many times people speak in tongues because people don't believe they are filled unless they do speak in tongues.

Acts10:[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

1 Cor.14:22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe