Once God gives you the promise of the Holy Ghost can you lose it, (Biblically)

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

But, he never lost his sonship.

You are correct. He was still a son. But a son with no inheritance. He was lost until he returned to his Fathers house and repented.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Ok...

Just so I can follow your line of thinking here... did the apostolic-turned-atheist always have the Holy Ghost... even while he was a professing atheist?

I'd thought that if someone became a reprobate like King Saul who was rejected by God then the Holy Spirit departed from them. I'm not sure I could prove this with NT scriptures though.

To answer your question, I don't know.

Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

And do you take speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost?

YES!

[Michael The Disciple]

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This does not mean to seal as a jar being sealed. Think as "the great seal of the state of Ohio". How they sort of stamp it on official paperwork proving the legality of a certain thing.

Jesus may initiate action to "cut off" someone who is "in him" if they fail to abide in him.

6: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John15:6

[augustianian]

The parable of the sower might be helpful in this discussion, especially when it comes to making a distinction between those who don't have the Spirit, those who appear to have the Spirit, and those who have the Spirit.

Matthew 13

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'd thought that if someone became a reprobate like King Saul who was rejected by God then the Holy Spirit departed from them. I'm not sure I could prove this with NT scriptures though.

To answer your question, I don't know.

Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Fair enough. Just trying to think this thing through...

I had always had the understanding (and had heard it taught/preached since I can remember) that someone who had the Holy Ghost and walked away from God would lose it. The NT doesnt explicitly teach on that, one way or the other...but

A) it simply makes sense, and

B) There seems to be some scriptural support for that:

..1) The Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14)
..2) The Spirit of the Lord departed from Samson (Compare Judges 14:19 & 16:20)
..3) David feared the Lord would take his Holy Spirit from him (Ps 51:11)

[Light]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

What about scripture for anyone ever losing the spiritual gifts that God bestowed upon them?

Can anyone think of any?

The gifts of the spirit and the Holy Ghost are two different things. Before one can have the gifts of the spirit they first must have the Holy Ghost.

To your question can one lose the Holy Ghost the ans. is yes


Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


The apostolic person that falls away to false doctrine is a disobediant child of God that is doomed to the lake of fire.

[Kay B]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

While I don't believe God takes back His gifts, I do believe that we are able to give it back to Him.

I Agree.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Fair enough. Just trying to think this thing through...

I had always had the understanding (and had heard it taught/preached since I can remember) that someone who had the Holy Ghost and walked away from God would lose it. The NT doesnt explicitly teach on that, one way or the other...but

A) it simply makes sense, and

B) There seems to be some scriptural support for that:

..1) The Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14)
..2) The Spirit of the Lord departed from Samson (Compare Judges 14:19 & 16:20)
..3) David feared the Lord would take his Holy Spirit from him (Ps 51:11)

I believe that God gives space to repent and that only He knows when that space of time is up. He is longsuffering and plenteous in mercy.

The Trinity makes sense to Trinitarians.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well I cant say I've ever given it much thought.
Maybe I'll answer your question with a question then, if you don't mind.

Hypothetical situation: If a former apostolic-turned-atheist comes back to church one Sunday morning and repents, but he doesn't speak in tongues that day, then goes home and dies that night, did he die saved?

Short answer, yes.... I do not have scripture indicating that one ever has to speak in tongues after the initial infilling. I believe they will but there is no mandate.

Qualified answer, I don't think that would ever happen. I believe that when he truly repents, i.e. yields himself to the Holy Spirit of our God, he will manifest that submission by speaking in tongues.

While I am throwing out my "wonder"ful thoughts, have you ever considered that tongues might be the native tongue of the New Jerusalem of which I believe the born again are citizens?

Think about how easy it is for a backslider to come into the presence of God and speak with tongues and never change a thing about their life. Could it be that they are just speaking their native tongue because they are among others of the same citizenship?

I have no specific scripture for this so it is not a doctrine I teach... just one that I have wondered about.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is your message on God's Children in Hell online?

I don't think any of my messages are online . That said, it is broken out in my syllabus "For This Thy Brother" which is focused on the plight of the backslider and the scant focus it gets in the oneness Apostolic movement.

I have attached the entire syllabus to this post.