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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #31  
Old 08-02-2007, 07:42 AM
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Malvaro Malvaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder View Post
Hello,

Frankly, I don't beleive that 'territorial spirits' even exist today, yet alone that we ought to pray against them or engage in some Christanese Harry Potter type of 'Charismatic' spell casting against them! Now whilst it's possible that territorial spirits might have existed prior to the incarnation, it's certain that after the cross Christ completely defeated satan and thereby wrecked his powers (Colossians 2:14-15). This verse is emphatic that Satan was bound by Christ himself at the cross, and so we don't need to re-bind him with Harry Potter like charismatic prayers, though I'm not suggesting that Jill is saying that, this is a general response to her question.

Satan doesn't own this world - God does; Psalm 24:1 'The earth is the Lords and the FULLNESS thereof' and so there is nothing that we have to bind or pray against, for Satan being bopund at the cross by Christ himself doesn't own anything and so have no legal right to any nation, country or territory.

Finally, Christians are to grow and mature by submission and surrender to Christ. There is no command in the Bible where mounted upon our nimbus 2000 we are told to then our on utter magical charismatic incantations in tongues which magically bind Satan as if a scene from the latest Harry Potter film. Christ has bound Satan for us at the cross (Colossians 2:14-15) for us and our command is only to personally be obedient to him, to proclaim his law to the lost so that they might be saved.
IB, this post is so wacked out I laughed when I read it. I haven't read such nonsense on AFF like that in a LONG time....

You're comparing the Christian fight with a Harry Potter movie?!?! whatever....

Quote:
This verse is emphatic that Satan was bound by Christ himself at the cross, and so we don't need to re-bind him with Harry Potter like charismatic prayers
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Satan clearly hasn't been bound yet.... nor his influence....

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

although I do agree that the Spirit of God abiding in us is greater than anything that opposes us....

Quote:
there is nothing that we have to bind or pray against, for Satan being bopund at the cross by Christ himself doesn't own anything and so have no legal right to any nation, country or territory
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

1 Timothy 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I'm sorry, you were saying something about having nothing spiritual to pray about or fight against???

I'm not sure what planet you're from.... but if you haven't experienced any type of spiritual warfare yet, you obviously aren't any threat to Satan or to his purpose....
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"In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)

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Last edited by Malvaro; 08-02-2007 at 07:55 AM. Reason: fixed typo
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  #32  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:03 AM
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Malvaro Malvaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Just a question here....

What scripture would one use to teach on this subject?

There is Daniel... who only continued to pray (as we all should) and did not specific warfare against any of these spirits. He didn't even know that there was a spirit fighting his answer until it arrived.

Beyond that... what scriptures would one use to teach on this subject?
It seems that the scripture's scope regarding Territorial Spirits aka "Territorial" model that Pelathais previously mentioned is limited.... although the generic topic of Spiritual Warfare is much more visible throughout the scriptures....

I agree with PhilJ, this particular topic could use more attention in the Church....
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"Rules without relationship lead to rebellion." Dr. James Dobson

"You don't need a license to preach, or teach, or win souls." RonB

"In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)

Never tell a young person that anything cannot be done. God may have been waiting centuries for someone ignorant enough of the impossible to do that very thing. ~ John Andrew Holmes
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  #33  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:13 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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**bigger level ..... bigger devil**
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  #34  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:15 AM
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Malvaro Malvaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
**bigger level ..... bigger devil**
what do you mean?
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"You don't need a license to preach, or teach, or win souls." RonB

"In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)

Never tell a young person that anything cannot be done. God may have been waiting centuries for someone ignorant enough of the impossible to do that very thing. ~ John Andrew Holmes
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:23 AM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malvaro View Post
It seems that the scripture's scope regarding Territorial Spirits aka "Territorial" model that Pelathais previously mentioned is limited.... although the generic topic of Spiritual Warfare is much more visible throughout the scriptures....

I agree with PhilJ, this particular topic could use more attention in the Church....
The bulk of what Pelathais has to say is fairly pivotal on the Genesis 6 "Sons of God" being angelic type beings. If I remember correctly you do not believe this to be true.
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  #36  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:32 AM
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Malvaro Malvaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
The bulk of what Pelathais has to say if fairly pivotal on the Genesis 6 "Sons of God" being angelic type beings. If I remember correctly you do not believe this to be true.
I seem to recall just saying that I personally found the thought of "sons of God" being angelic beings in that passage disturbing.... I've heard both sides of reasoning and without having been there, it's really speculative.... i think, based off the teaching i've heard in the past, leaned towards "sons of God" being humanity.... could be right, could be wrong....

you have a good memory....
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"Rules without relationship lead to rebellion." Dr. James Dobson

"You don't need a license to preach, or teach, or win souls." RonB

"In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)

Never tell a young person that anything cannot be done. God may have been waiting centuries for someone ignorant enough of the impossible to do that very thing. ~ John Andrew Holmes
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  #37  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:42 AM
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revrandy revrandy is offline
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I could understand spiritual warfare.. But I DO not believe that angels war against one another.. God is too great for this..

Michael when disputing with Satan over Moses body didn't rail against him he simply said, "The Lord rebuke you"... and it was done..

There is too much superstition in this for me to believe that Satan is that powerful...
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  #38  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:46 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
**bigger level ..... bigger devil**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malvaro View Post
what do you mean?
Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**
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  #39  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:47 AM
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revrandy revrandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**
Is there scripture to support this?
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  #40  
Old 08-02-2007, 08:47 AM
Amos Amos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
I could understand spiritual warfare.. But I DO not believe that angels war against one another.. God is too great for this..

Michael when disputing with Satan over Moses body didn't rail against him he simply said, "The Lord rebuke you"... and it was done..

There is too much superstition in this for me to believe that Satan is that powerful...
"And there was war in heaven..."
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