Only 2 types of tongues not 3 - Page 4

jfrog · #1 10-28-2009, 01:15 PM

I'm starting to think the best way to read the passage is as the gift of tongues being responsible for the private prayer language and messages in tongues (when interpretation is present) Though this implies that not all will have a private prayer language in tongues.

mfblume · #2 10-28-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm starting to think the best way to read the passage is as the gift of tongues being responsible for the private prayer language and messages in tongues (when interpretation is present) Though this implies that not all will have a private prayer language in tongues.

That is what I have been trying to say may be the case.

jfrog · #3 10-28-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is what I have been trying to say may be the case.

Sorry then. I should stop assuming things! I was assuming that you would find it impossible to reconcile that with the pentecostal experience where everyone seems to have a private prayer language.

jfrog · #4 10-28-2009, 01:42 PM

Pressing, on the other thread you said you believed this: If the gift of tongues refers to a natural language that God imbues the person with that he can use in various ways then your explanation is the only one that makes sense.

Since the gift of tongues refers to that, how can you say in this thread that it only refers to the gift of tongues when interpretation is present.

Pressing-On · #5 10-28-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Pressing, on the other thread you said you believed this: If the gift of tongues refers to a natural language that God imbues the person with that he can use in various ways then your explanation is the only one that makes sense.

Since the gift of tongues refers to that, how can you say in this thread that it only refers to the gift of tongues when interpretation is present.

My first thought is that God uses me in the gifts and I can only speak from what I have experienced and seen.

Therefore, because I Cor 30 says, "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

I know these two work together, so that is the conclusion that I draw from that verse. I also know that not always will the same person give both the tongues and the interpretation, so I see why Paul separates that in the verse.

You can have one person give both and many times, you have two or three separate people giving the tongues before the interpretation. I've only been in one service where there were three tongues given before the interpretation.

We had two tongues go forth before interpretation at our Tuesday morning Ladies Prayer meeting last week.

jfrog · #6 10-28-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

My first thought is that God uses me in the gifts and I can only speak from what I have experienced and seen.

Therefore, because I Cor 30 says, "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

I know these two work together, so that is the conclusion that I draw from that verse. I also know that not always will the same person give both the tongues and the interpretation, so I see why Paul separates that in the verse.

You can have one person give both and many times, you have two or three separate people giving the tongues before the interpretation. I've only been in one service where there were three tongues given before the interpretation.

We had two tongues go forth before interpretation at our Tuesday morning at our Ladies Prayer meeting last week.

Again, if the gift of tongues is only for a message then your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 13 being about angels are in error. This would mean the tongues of men and of angels could not be differentiating between speaking in them as a man and speaking in them as a message

Pressing-On · #7 10-28-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Again, if the gift of tongues is only for a message then your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 13 being about angels are in error. This would mean the tongues of men and of angels could not be differentiating between speaking in them as a man and speaking in them as a message

I don't agree. I can speak in tongues as a person and I can deliver an anointed message. He is speaking of operating both in love. That is the focus of I Cor 13 - handling all with love.

You are trying to put "interpretation" (to explain thoroughly) of I Cor 12:30 with "angels" (messenger, to bring tidings) into I Cor 13:1.

Is that what you are doing?

The tongues can and probably includes our private prayer and operation in the gifts.

jfrog · #8 10-28-2009, 02:46 PM

What I'm trying to point out is that I don't care which interpretation you take, but you cannot both be right about angels in 1 corinthians 13:1 and about what the gift of tongues are. That is the point I am trying to make. I actually think you are right about the angels in 1 Corinthians 13:1 now, but that means the gift of tongues also includes in its scope the prayer language. When taken with 1 Corinthians 12:30 this implies that not all have the gift of tongues. The gift of tongues being defined in your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:1 as something which has different aspects, one that is not a message and one that is a message. So not all would have these things.

You keep on saying because it says Do all interpret tongues right after the do all speak in tongues to try to show that the gift of tongues is only with interpretation. Do you not realize by doing this you destroy your own argument for tongues of men and angels (still referring to the same thing as 1 Corinthians 12 was) referring to tongues not for a message and tongues for a message.

Pressing-On · #9 10-28-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

What I'm trying to point out is that I don't care which interpretation you take, but you cannot both be right about angels in 1 corinthians 13:1 and about what the gift of tongues are. That is the point I am trying to make. I actually think you are right about the angels in 1 Corinthians 13:1 now, but that means the gift of tongues also includes in its scope the prayer language. When taken with 1 Corinthians 12:30 this implies that not all have the gift of tongues. The gift of tongues being defined in your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:1 as something which has different aspects, one that is not a message and one that is a message. So not all would have these things.

You keep on saying because it says Do all interpret tongues right after the do all speak in tongues to try to show that the gift of tongues is only with interpretation. Do you not realize by doing this you destroy your own argument for tongues of men and angels (still referring to the same thing as 1 Corinthians 12 was) referring to tongues not for a message and tongues for a message.

No, I don't think that I destroy anything. Paul is speaking of self-edification and spiritual gifts in all three chapters.

If he, IMO, speaks of tongues in I Cor 13, he is bringing in both - self-edification and spiritual gifts. I believe that because he uses the word "tongues" which is diverse and "angels" which means, as I said, "a messenger, to bring glad tidings".

He doesn't use the word "interpretation" which means "explain thoroughly".

Therefore, I can only conclude that he is bringing in ALL operations that the Spirit manifests itself and that he wants us to make sure that the bottom line of everything we do is to operate in love.

There have been times in my private prayer that I have to calm down and submit to God in love so that my prayer will not be unfruitful.

Again, I see Paul drawing on ALL elements of the operation of the Spirit - for the body and for self-edification.

jfrog · #10 10-28-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

No, I don't think that I destroy anything. Paul is speaking of self-edification and spiritual gifts in all three chapters.

If he, IMO, speaks of tongues in I Cor 13, he is bringing in both - self-edification and spiritual gifts. I believe that because he uses the word "tongues" which is diverse and "angels" which means, as I said, "a messenger, to bring glad tidings".

He doesn't use the word "interpretation" which means "explain thoroughly".

Therefore, I can only conclude that he is bringing in ALL operations that the Spirit manifests itself and that he wants us to make sure that the bottom line of everything we do is to operate in love.

There have been times in my private prayer that I have to calm down and submit to God in love so that my prayer will not be unfruitful.

Again, I see Paul drawing on ALL elements of the operation of the Spirit - for the body and for self-edification.

Then would you say the tongues mentioned in verse 12:30 is about both or only about the interpreted kind. Seems to me it must also be about both for he is listing most if not all of the spiritual gifts he just mentioned in chapter 12. Why would it be that 1 Corinthians 13 would be the first time he referenced the private prayer language if that is what it is meaning?

Also, the word tongues in all of these verses is the same in the Greek. This, supports my case that he is speaking of the same kind of tongues from the beginning of ch. 12 to the end of ch. 14.