Does Dead Really Mean Dead???

[truthseeker3139]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Maybe Paul is speaking of two different things. I guess you would have to define the "old man" and the new creature. Is the "old man" speaking of our flesh with its sinful nature or something else?

Does being new creatures in Christ mean we don't struggle with the flesh.

Concerning "I die daily", here is another translation:

1Co 15:31 [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self]. Amp

Here's another

I Corinthians 15:29-34

29 If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?

30 And why should we ourselves risk our lives hour by hour? 31 For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you. 32 And what value was there in fighting wild beasts—those people of Ephesus[f]—if there will be no resurrection from the dead? And if there is no resurrection, “Let’s feast and drink, for tomorrow we die!”[g] 33 Don’t be fooled by those who say such things, for “bad company corrupts good character.” 34 Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all.

In the context of the passage Paul is clearly speaking of facing physical death and not of dying to self.

[tbpew]

My understanding of the "die daily" witness Paul provides is in consideration of both Romans 7 and 8.

The wisdom of God has provided us a transition state (a wilderness of sorts) that has the setting where both carnal-mindedness and spiritual-mindedness can have occassion.

Death is an operation that has application within a temporal realm, the realm pertaining to our first birth, the realm of the carnally-minded. Paul's daily death was to moritify carnal-mindedness by fellowship with the Spirit.

I have more and more come to see my FAITH as the fruit of my journeying in the realm of God's Spirit (heavenly places in Christ). Faith is (or is established upon) our visitation/experience within the Kingdom of our God in THIS LIFE.

If our Spiritual-mindedness increasing daily, carnal-mindedness decreases, or dies, daily.

Our salvation is the result of enduring to the end of a transitional life where we must choose what things we will think on --daily!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by tbpew

My understanding of the "die daily" witness Paul provides is in consideration of both Romans 7 and 8.

The wisdom of God has provided us a transition state (a wilderness of sorts) that has the setting where both carnal-mindedness and spiritual-mindedness can have occassion.

Death is an operation that has application within a temporal realm, the realm pertaining to our first birth, the realm of the carnally-minded. Paul's daily death was to moritify carnal-mindedness by fellowship with the Spirit.

I have more and more come to see my FAITH as the fruit of my journeying in the realm of God's Spirit (heavenly places in Christ). Faith is (or is established upon) our visitation/experience within the Kingdom of our God in THIS LIFE.

If our Spiritual-mindedness increasing daily, carnal-mindedness decreases, or dies, daily.

Our salvation is the result of enduring to the end of a transitional life where we must choose what things we will think on --daily!

Does the old man refer to the flesh or something else?

[Michael The Disciple]

Do the scriptures teach entire sanctification?

23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24: Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 1 Thess. 5:23-24

There it is. Just as clear as John 3:16. Just as clear as Acts 2:38.

Only the doctrine and traditions of men keep men from seeing something that is so clear.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Paul also wrote :1 Cor 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Leaving I die daily in context,Paul said he dies daily fighting with beasts.He died because of the tribulation the beast ( evil men) did to him.That is not talking about dying to sin.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Is there a struggle ... then??? ... if Paul says he must die daily ...

but seemingly admits that their is a battle between the Spirit and our flesh ....

Romans 7

The Law and Sin

7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.


13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.



Some would say he's speaking in the past tense ... yet others say his grammar is unclear .and suggests a present state..

Paul was talking about when he was under the law,but Jesus delivered him from the law.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Do the scriptures teach entire sanctification?

23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul (MIND)and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24: Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 1 Thess. 5:23-24

There it is. Just as clear as John 3:16. Just as clear as Acts 2:38.

Only the doctrine and traditions of men keep men from seeing something that is so clear.

Yes amen,sanctify is used in connection with the mind.We sanctify our mind.Our mind controls our body,if we control our mind we are sanctified.

Cor.13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,( Perfected love) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, (Perfected love) I am nothing.
13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity,(Perfected Love) it profiteth me nothing.13:4 Charity (Perfected Love)suffereth long, and is kind; charity(Perfected Love) envieth not; charity (perfected Love)vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Rom.12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Eph.4
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;


Philp.2:[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

DOES DEAD REALLY MEAN DEAD?????

Only if your not breathing and your heart is not pumping blood. Then it means dead.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Yes amen,sanctify is used in connection with the mind.We sanctify our mind.Our mind controls our body,if we control our mind we are sanctified.

Cor.13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,( Perfected love) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, (Perfected love) I am nothing.
13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity,(Perfected Love) it profiteth me nothing.13:4 Charity (Perfected Love)suffereth long, and is kind; charity(Perfected Love) envieth not; charity (perfected Love)vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Rom.12
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Eph.4
[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;


Philp.2:[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Yet it also refers to the soul and body. True that is very hard to divide asunder yet Paul says all are to be sanctified INCLUDING THE BODY.

And then adds God will do it!

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yet it also refers to the soul and body. True that is very hard to divide asunder yet Paul says all are to be sanctified INCLUDING THE BODY.

And then adds God will do it!

Yes the soul is our mind and is part of our body.