Denying the Lord and still Saved? - Page 4

Jay · #31 02-09-2012, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

That's why if we're going to endure until the end we need to be prayed up NOW and strong in our faith NOW before it gets "really" bad.

Our suffering will be rewarded. It is temporary.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." Romans 8:18

Remember, this was written to a church in a time of great persecution. If you can't fathom being tortured or killed for your faith, you need to spend more time in prayer and fasting, because we never know when the gun will be pointed to our heads.

Remember Columbine?

We need to be prepared, all baiting aside to suffer for Christ's name sake. When Christ said take up your cross, he very well could have meant that literally in some cases. Peter, WAS crucified. Do I want to be tortured for my faith and killed? No. Do I know how it feels? No. Do I absolutely know that in the face of torture I wouldn't deny Christ? No. But I pray to God everyday for the strength to endure. I believe he will perserve those who want to be perserved so the whole "what happens if..." line of questioning is a moot point. God gives to those who ask. Grace is not an excuse for sin. Grace gives us a God-given ability to overcome it.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13

This verse sums it up in it's entirety. God will not ask of us more then we can handle. If he commands us to be true to him in the midst of persecution, that we must, and HE will provide the grace, he will provide the means. My flesh of course fears the idea of ruthless torture, but my spirit knows that my God is faithful, and if he is faithful he'll remain true to his word.

My heart is determined to be saved. My salvation is based on my faith and confession in Christ and my obedience to him and his word. I am therefore to keep my confession by faith and be obedience to him. God will give me grace to do so, I believe it. I don't know how. I lay on my face and cry every night asking God to strengthen this generation, because we are so weak and comfortable and don't even see the battlelines being drawn. We MUST seek Gods will on this. He's given us HIS spirit. Do you not know what the SPIRIT OF CHRIST allowed Christ to endure? Do you not know what type of spirit is in you?

People have the HOLY GHOST deep down in their souls and say they can't stop drinking, smoking, cussing, and watching pornography. Do you know who God is?

No excuses saints. This is the time when our tests will be proven. The Originial Poster of this thread believes that we are crazy, but it will be our generation that will once again PROVE GOD'S WORD TO BE TRUE.

If you, those who have the Holy Ghost say that you can't handle the torture your making God out to be a liar, because HIS WORD said you CAN...

...but your faith is required. I'll withstand with the help, grace, and mercy of MY GOD and it will be a testimony to the sinner man I pray, that God must be who he says he is, if a man would lay down everything for him. God help this generation.

I believe that we have disagreed many times in the past, but I wonder if any of us truly can fathom the truth of what you have just said. I know that what you have said is the truth.

Indeed, I know my own faults and failings, and have been convicted of them by you. I am abashed and ashamed for not placing more of my trust in the Great God who came to set us all free and enable us to live in holiness.

trialedbyfire · #32 02-09-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I believe that we have disagreed many times in the past, but I wonder if any of us truly can fathom the truth of what you have just said. I know that what you have said is the truth.

Indeed, I know my own faults and failings, and have been convicted of them by you. I am abashed and ashamed for not placing more of my trust in the Great God who came to set us all free and enable us to live in holiness.

To God be the glory. I was convicting myself as I was writting it. We all have things we have to work on and improve on... myself included. This process continues until death. This walk we walk is a walk by faith and continued prayer and fasting. With fear and trembling we'll all work out our own salvation, and hopefully be able to help one another by praying with and for one another in the process, building up and edifying the church, rather than tearing it down and killing our wounded.

Jay · #33 02-09-2012, 07:09 PM

We are in agreement on this. I fear that I lack on my fasting. It is a practice that I believe might be truly beneficial if cultivated to one day a week. This thread has now reached a point, where it can join the thread on travail, because that is where we will develop the power to hold when the evil days come.

bbyrd009 · #34 02-09-2012, 11:34 PM

"This verse sums it up in it's entirety. God will not ask of us more then we can handle."

A thing about a relationship with your Father is that it parallels the relationship of an earthly father and child. I have always been able to see direct parallels. If you, as a father, were watching your child about to be tortured for lack of spouting something that their heart does not mean, I wonder if you might not reconsider.

Although I plan to live the rest of my life as if each day were my last, and am pretty sure you aren't really living til you might be dead tomorrow anyway, but while your words are correct, I don't believe the image they are conveying is an accurate characterization...maybe because it makes me a victim and ah, yes, it's because they haven't come to get me, I'm after them; there in that future scenario this has going on, that we extract from the Revelation, trying to turn it into Revelations. . Also because it displaces your center, in time, always bad.

Understanding that God won't overload you means you shouldn't lie awake at night even thinking about this. It's tomorrow, it never comes, and you should focus in an entirely different direction. You should not be preparing for Armageddon, you should be demonstrating life, more abundantly, right now, and preparing for a wedding. I don't think we should recruit people in fear.
http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

Jay · #35 02-09-2012, 11:36 PM

Hell fire is not something to be afraid of, Bbyrd?

trialedbyfire · #36 02-10-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

"This verse sums it up in it's entirety. God will not ask of us more then we can handle."

A thing about a relationship with your Father is that it parallels the relationship of an earthly father and child. I have always been able to see direct parallels. If you, as a father, were watching your child about to be tortured for lack of spouting something that their heart does not mean, I wonder if you might not reconsider.

Although I plan to live the rest of my life as if each day were my last, and am pretty sure you aren't really living til you might be dead tomorrow anyway, but while your words are correct, I don't believe the image they are conveying is an accurate characterization...maybe because it makes me a victim and ah, yes, it's because they haven't come to get me, I'm after them; there in that future scenario this has going on, that we extract from the Revelation, trying to turn it into Revelations. . Also because it displaces your center, in time, always bad.

Understanding that God won't overload you means you shouldn't lie awake at night even thinking about this. It's tomorrow, it never comes, and you should focus in an entirely different direction. You should not be preparing for Armageddon, you should be demonstrating life, more abundantly, right now, and preparing for a wedding. I don't think we should recruit people in fear.
http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

I'm not "recruiting with fear". Put these emotions aside and look at the word.

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Ephesians 6:13

It is required of us to endure hardship. Our endurance depends on Christ's strength.

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:11-13

When Paul said he can do all things through Christ he wasn't talking about prosperity teaching, name it and claim it, he was talking about enduring hardship and going through the storm with an understanding that God will eventually reward us according to our FAITHFULNESS.

Yes, God's relationship with the saints is often compared to a father-son relationship. In some ways it is.

It is also compared to a husband-wife relationship. In some ways it is.

It is also compared to a master-servant relationship. In some was it is, also.

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

The fact is if you want to discuss a father-son relationship in scripture you need to go back to brush up on some reading:

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." Isaiah 53:10

Now am I saying that our suffering pleases God? No. Am I saying however that ultimately God will glory in our suffering? Yes.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" 2 Timothy 2:12

How much more black and white can that scripture be?

No I'm not "recruiting with fear". I'm not trying to paint an ugly picture of life with Christ. I love the life we live it is a great life. It comes with a price however.

The price is your life.

This isn't being harsh, there's a reality to this:

"But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy." 1 Peter 4:13

The scriptures are full of this reality. It's there. I'm not going to sugar-coat it. We are soldiers on a battfield. We've been drafted into a war we did not start. Because of SIN...

...NOT because of God...

...we either have to endure hardship with Christ relying on the power of the Holy Ghost for a short season (possibly) and then inherit eternal bliss or not endure hardship without Christ (maybe because some will endure hardship in this life they just won't have Christ) and then spend eternity in Hell.

That is sin's doing, not God's. All this talk about God wouldn't let us go through that. God cannot be held accountable for what sin has brought on this world.

The GREAT part about this is, with God on ourside we can't fail.

NotforSale · #37 02-10-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I do not believe that a person who denies Christ will not be saved if they do not repent before death. I do believe that a person can repent, but I do believe that they must have time to repent. There are too many examples of people who held out until the end.

When Jesus said that if we loved life more than Him, He did not exclude us from deaths that would include great suffering. This is why He said that His people should have a greater love for Him rather than for our own families. We are to count all as lost for Him and His service. No matter the pain, suffering, sacrifice, or death.

So, we are saved by works?

houston · #38 02-10-2012, 12:30 PM

Bwahahaha

NotforSale · #39 02-10-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

No excuses saints. This is the time when our tests will be proven. The Originial Poster of this thread believes that we are crazy, but it will be our generation that will once again PROVE GOD'S WORD TO BE TRUE.

Who said you were crazy??

You will notice, every poster on this Thread that supports the wrath of God upon those who deny the Lord while being tortured, have never been tortured. Typical, "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" religious rhetoric, stating the facts without the experience to back it. Christians today have turned the Bible and their Faith into a cartoon.

What did Jesus say to those who just crucified him?

RandyWayne · #40 02-10-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Who said you were crazy??

You will notice, every poster on this Thread that supports the wrath of God upon those who deny the Lord while being tortured, have never been tortured. Typical, "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" religious rhetoric, stating the facts without the experience to back it. Christians today have turned the Bible and their Faith into a cartoon.

What did Jesus say to those who just crucified him?

"Why have you forsaken me?"

It wasn't a curse to God or a denial of God to those killing Him but he WAS giving into despair at that moment.