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  #31  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 PM
Bro. Robbins Bro. Robbins is offline
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Re: That Old King James

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Well..the church has gone secular decades ago when it agreed to the tax-exempt status. They want their big buildings and fancy equipment, but they do not want to have to pay the taxes. In exchange, they do not speak out for or against political candidates. This makes the church a non-profit corporation, which is a worldly concept.

Worldly can mean a lot of things.

The heart is what Jesus sees.
And there are many of us in conservative circles who favor churches giving up their tax exempt status.... absolutely. Not sure what that has to do with secular music vs. sacred music discussion.
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  #32  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:07 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
Not at all... we are to judge with a Godly jugdement... and the judgement that all souls will be judged by is the Word of God... and that's open for us all to read and see for ourselves.

Believe me, I don't glory, nor revel in the fact that many cross over into hell that are good people. Everytime I preach on hell, or even talk about it with a lost person I feel the burn of hot tears in my eyes and down my face... as no one should ever have to go to hell. Hell wasn't created for any of us, but for Satan and his imps... and if any man or woman, boy or girl goes... they'll be an intruder into that place.

But the Gospel is clear. The gate to Righteousness is pretty narrow... it's only by Jesus... no other way. And one receiving that salvation, one must walk within that relationship, or they fall from that grace.

Good intentions, good morals, even compassion cannot save a person. Only Jesus saves... and if someone is in Jesus, there are many indicators from their life that will tell they are in Jesus.

The Word does the judging... not I.
OK I get the fact that there is only ONE way to God and that is through Jesus.

But can we just look into people's hearts and say "You don't know Jesus"?
No, we cannot.

Some people expect the newborn to act and live like full-grown adults. They do not want to give them time to suckle milk, to learn and to grow.
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  #33  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:08 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
And there are many of us in conservative circles who favor churches giving up their tax exempt status.... absolutely. Not sure what that has to do with secular music vs. sacred music discussion.
You bringing the word..."worldly" into it.
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  #34  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:14 PM
The Lemon The Lemon is offline
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Re: That Old King James

Actually Bro. the thread was simply Sam posting a song by Scotty, YOU are the one who started ranting about secular music and Blah Blah Blah. No strawman, just common sense...when you start getting all worked up about "worldliness" and people start challenging that with other scenarios it is a strawman and off topic??? Please...
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  #35  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
Sir, expecting anything else would be like expecting a duck to say "moo".
"Expect the unexpected."
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  #36  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Bro. Robbins Bro. Robbins is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
You bringing the word..."worldly" into it.
that's what secular means... secular and worldly are synomyms....

regarding your other post... yes God looks on the heart, but the Bible doesn't say he looks ONLY on the heart. The outward matters as much as the inward... just as much as the outward can't be cleaned while the inside is filthy and nasty.... the inside can't have a work done that doesn't show on the outside.

back to music... music is very unique, and has a very unique place in the kingdom. I don't see any use of secular music within scripture.... but everywhere I see it, it's used not as entertainment, but as an act of worship. In fact, there are many scriptures that tell you that your singing should be as praise, worship, glorification of God... as well as your use of instruments.

This is not a strange teaching... has been a teaching in the old Sanctified Baptist circles, Amish, Mennonites, Pilgrim Holiness, Separated General Baptists, Fire Baptized Holiness..... and others.
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  #37  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:17 PM
Bro. Robbins Bro. Robbins is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by The Lemon View Post
Actually Bro. the thread was simply Sam posting a song by Scotty, YOU are the one who started ranting about secular music and Blah Blah Blah. No strawman, just common sense...when you start getting all worked up about "worldliness" and people start challenging that with other scenarios it is a strawman and off topic??? Please...
The thread started with a SECULAR musician singing a SACRED "content" Song.... and I was responding to that SECULAR musician attempting to take part in something SACRED, and Sam apparently applauding it. I was absolutely on topic.... I was responding to that which was posted.
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  #38  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:36 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
that's what secular means... secular and worldly are synomyms....

regarding your other post... yes God looks on the heart, but the Bible doesn't say he looks ONLY on the heart. The outward matters as much as the inward... just as much as the outward can't be cleaned while the inside is filthy and nasty.... the inside can't have a work done that doesn't show on the outside.
I know what secular means Brother Robbins. Our churches imitate many "secular" or "worldly" positions. Including the pastorate being a "professional job".

Concerning the "outward" image of a person. Have you ever done without the basic needs in your life? You talked about being comfortable wearing only suits in public. There are many people who just do not have the funds to buy a suit and some who must wear casual clothes to cover their body. Many people would consider wearing a suit as not being "them". They cannot identify with it.

While I agree that people should keep their body clothed and not show private parts and bosoms, there are some churches that go to the extreme when it comes to body coverings.

However, outward images of people are not always a gauge or a measuring stick of cleanliness on the inside. I have come in contact with many people who look clean on the outside, but their inside is vile, nasty and reprobate in how they treat others with unkindness. Everybody has an unkind moment in their life, but some ...well they just are that way all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post
back to music... music is very unique, and has a very unique place in the kingdom. I don't see any use of secular music within scripture.... but everywhere I see it, it's used not as entertainment, but as an act of worship. In fact, there are many scriptures that tell you that your singing should be as praise, worship, glorification of God... as well as your use of instruments.

This is not a strange teaching... has been a teaching in the old Sanctified Baptist circles, Amish, Mennonites, Pilgrim Holiness, Separated General Baptists, Fire Baptized Holiness..... and others.
I don't take issue with your stance on music. Not at all. I see it pretty much the same way you do. God is creator of music.

What I take issue with is your saying that many good, moral, compassionate etc people are in hell.

You do not know that to be a fact.

Only God knows who is in hell and why they allowed themselves to end up there.
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  #39  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:39 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: That Old King James

the song was not a either/or type of song

It was about a kid with a Bible that was passed down from his Grandpa to his Mom, and now he has it, and sometimes he reads it. Sounds like real life, sounds like a good place to start. At least the kid has some respect for the Word of God, right?
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  #40  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:46 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: That Old King James

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Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins View Post

...This thread is directly dealing with secular vs sacred music, and where should a Christian be found in that mix..
That is what this thread has become
but it was not my original intent.

When I heard/saw that song with its words it blessed me seeing that young man singing that song at the Grand Ole Opry. I know that "Country Singers" have lots of problems with drinkin', dopin' and cheatin' and those things are sung about a lot, but, many of them did their first singing in Church and to many of them the Lord is still close to their hearts. Some of them have regular prayer, worship, and Bible Study on their tour busses.

I don't know anything about this young man. I don't know if this was throwing out a "religious bone" to a portion of his audience or not. He looked awful young to have a grandfather in World War 2 so the song may not have been his "personal testimony" but I think it had a good message.

When I heard him sing about his grandfather reading that Bible from childhood, through young manhood in the European war zone, and then all through his life I thought of myself, now almost 75 years old, and how the KJV has guided, strengthened and sustained me for over half a century. I'm not "KJV only" but the KJV has always been my favorite. A passage that has blessed me and that I preached on a while back is Isaiah 46:1-4 which reads as follows in The Living Bible (the one I read my text from when I preached on "A Long Term Commitment"):
1-2 The idols of Babylon, Bel and Nebo, are being hauled away on oxcarts! But look! The cart is turning over! The gods are falling out onto the ground! Is that the best they can do? If they cannot even save themselves from such a fall, how can they save their worshipers from Cyrus? 3 Listen to me all Israel who are left: I have created you and cared for you since you were born. 4 I will be your God through all your lifetime, yes, even when your hair is white with age. I made you and I will care for you. I will carry you along and be your Savior.

The thought there was that God knew us in the womb before we were born and has been there with us and for us throughout all our life and when we get older, He will not abandon us for some "trophy bride." The idea was that we made a long term commitment to God years ago and He has made a long term commitment to us.

Of course I talked a little about those 4 Hebrew kids who may have been as young as 10 or maybe as old as 13-15 who were carried away captive miles from home, given new names which were about foreign gods instead of their given names which were about their God, and yet they made a commitment to God and refused to compromise. About 70 years later we still find Daniel, an old man but still faithful to God. And we find God still faithful to him when he was arrested, charged, and thrown into a den of lions. I also mentioned Jacob who at the end of his days said, "The days of my pilgrimage are 130 years" (Gen 47:9) and when he blessed his grandsons he testified about how his God (the Angel of the Lord) had been with him over the years (Gen 48:16), and about how in his old age he worshiped leaning on his staff (Hebrews 11:21). Now, since the time I preached that message I have to use a cane or a walker and I think about old Jacob worshiping while leaning on his staff while I lean on my cane or walker and worship the Lord.

Also, in the song, how the Bible was passed on down to his mother who turned to it in time of need. And how the Bible was now his and he needed it. It reminded me of Timothy who received his faith and teaching through his grandmother Lois and then through his mother Eunice (2 Timothy 1:5). I also thought about Paul's admonition to Timothy: "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:14-15. In The Message Bible it says, "You took in the Scriptures with your mother's milk."

OK, I'm an old man. I've been reading and feeding on, and preaching from the KJV for over half a century. I just took the song for what it was as I listened to it and did not try to consider that kid's motive for singing it or how real it might be to the singer. I saw it as a message of how the Word of God can keep us from generation to generation because it is the Word of God. Of course I also thought of Paul's admonition to the Overseers/Elders of the Ephesian assembly when he met with them and commended them to God and to His Word which was able to edify/build them up (Acts 20:32).
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