Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is almost funny. The subject is restoring the Apostles doctrine. And now we are snagged once again over just water and spirit baptism.

Friends that is just the BASIC of entering the kingdom!

To restore the Apostles doctrine means going a LOT farther than that.

But sadly most will never get past that way of thinking. Namely that if Acts 2:38 is accepted....now we have restored the apostles doctrine!

Acts 2:38 is a very valid piece of scripture (as is all of the bible), but the apostles' doctrine doesn't hang on just 1 scripture; it goes much further than that.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Farfel

Acts 2:38 is a very valid piece of scripture (as is all of the bible), but the apostles' doctrine doesn't hang on just 1 scripture; it goes much further than that.

And, when one amends Acts 2:38, not as far...

[bbyrd009]

Amen. They had it, and you don't. Your pale attempts at 'speaking in tongues' via glossololia, and comparing it to the beautiful, miraculous baptisms that were necessary in Apostolic times in order to legitimize Christianity is not even a joke; it is a misdirected lie.

While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia.

While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Amen. They had it, and you don't. Your pale attempts at 'speaking in tongues' via glossololia, and comparing it to the beautiful, miraculous baptisms that were necessary in Apostolic times in order to legitimize Christianity is not even a joke; it is a misdirected lie.

While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia.

While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches.

A couple of things: First, you don't even know me, you simply don't agree with what I say most of the time. But you have nothing with which to base your assertion that "I don't have it." That would by implication also refer to the other Apostolics on here that gladly claim the same experience.

You claim I have a "satanically directed purpose" when all I did was present the actual words of Scripture concerning the events recorded in Acts 10 as well as Peter's defense in Acts 11 both of which prove the truth that tongues were the single identifiable sign by which the Jews knew with certainty that the gentiles had received the "like gift" of the Holy Spirit. That is the simple truth of Scripture and a fact of history. To call that deceptive and satanically motivated says far more about you than you realize. I simply presented the truth of Scripture. To attribute that to a work of satan is to paint all of us here that present the truth with a rather broad brush. That is totally unjustified.

As for people "running, full tilt, away from our death-centered churches"? Our Church has had a sustained growth for over five years now and we are about to enlarge our Sanctuary for the second time. We preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as recorded in Scripture. People are saved and filled with the Spirit, lives are changed, marriages restored and addictions destroyed. Our baptistry is in use all week long sometimes at 2AM as our ministry teams present the life giving message of the Mighty God in Christ and His saving grace on the streets of our City. Our home groups are doubling at an average rate of every six months. I fail to see how this is somehow "death-centered."

But you are correct, you do not sway me from my purpose!

You speak to what you do not understand. You know nothing about us.

[n david]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Amen. They had it, and you don't. Your pale attempts at 'speaking in tongues' via glossololia, and comparing it to the beautiful, miraculous baptisms that were necessary in Apostolic times in order to legitimize Christianity is not even a joke; it is a misdirected lie.

Quite the accusation there. How do you know he doesn't have it?

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches.

Really?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by n david

Quite the accusation there. How do you know he doesn't have it?

Good point--maybe I don't. However, I actually respond more to the spirit of a post, and I detected the same well-meaning hype that I got growing up in the Pentecostal church. Let me reiterate that if his experience was somehow different, and mirrored the Apostle's experience of xenoglossy (you would hear it shouted from rooftops, etc--ie YouTube), with accompanying signs and wonders, then I am here to say "AMEN."

Originally Posted by n david

Really?

In context, yes, really. These are educated people, not ignorants. Presuming to tell everyone else that they are--oh, take it as far as you like:--not 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit, not Apostolic, not going to heaven. I stand by my post here, wadr.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009
"While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches."

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

In context, yes, really. These are educated people, not ignorants. Presuming to tell everyone else that they are--oh, take it as far as you like:--not 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit, not Apostolic, not going to heaven. I stand by my post here, wadr.

Originally Posted by bbyrd009
"While I have no doubt that this will not sway you from your satanically directed purpose, let this serve as notice that you can fool some of the people some of the time...and don't be mystified at why people are running, full tilt, away from your death-centered churches."

For the record, I have never said any of the things in the first I am not their judge, simply a mere student of the scriptures. I simply try to say what the Word itself says.

I do however have a question.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The message of the Gospel is one of Life and Freedom. Repentance is made, sins are remitted, a new spirit is received and Christ Himself comes to live within you. Can you please tell me in precisely what way, bringing that reality to people is "death-centered." That's the one phrase from your earlier post that you chose to repeat. I am afraid I cannot understand your thinking there. Help me out, please.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

...Can you please tell me in precisely what way, bringing that reality to people is "death-centered." That's the one phrase from your earlier post that you chose to repeat. I am afraid I cannot understand your thinking there. Help me out, please.

It will be hard to hold a mirror up for this, for someone from the West, who has not experienced creation-centered Christianity. The best that I can do is to reiterate that a doctrine, that of Original Sin, was seized upon over the objections of its author, about 400or so years ago, at the Council of Trent.

While it has been completely obscured from us now--intentionally, I have no doubt--this effectively divided the Western world, which then consisted of Western Europe and (pointedly) a nascent little upstart nation, the USA; to the point that one cannot now have a conversation about the Law of sin and death--accepted theology, even in a creation centered model, and backed by Scripture--w/o said "doctrine" entering into the conversation; and generally right from the first reply of the Westerner.

Again, although the connection might be initially hard to make, this is why we have such a fascination with skulls--it's why we like to wear black. This doctrine has completely permeated every area of our society now. I do not post this to change anyones mind--it is too late for that; we have long passed that tipping point--but so that a remnant might recognize, or 'hear,' when the effects become unavoidably evident for all.

While the difference in the Law and the doctrine might seem insignificant, an exercise in semantics, I offer as a type of proof your sunday school education; like making Sunday "the Lord's day," and turning Passover into "Easter" (Ishtar worship), how many times did anyone cover this with you then? Exactly 0, is my guess--in church school. Them what's got ears...


Understand that this does not happen by accident; it takes a sustained effort, over generations.

http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

Will give anyone interested a primer, of sorts.

[bbyrd009]

"While I don't doubt your sincerity, see that what you are helping to do is obscure any genuine experiences of current day baptism in the Holy Spirit, which may still occur--although I have never seen any in an Apostolic church, in witnessing...I don't know, well over 100 instances of glossololia."

Remember when you were younger, and someone sold you some 'bunk,' and you went around for about the first hour, going, "I don't know; I might be high?" Same thing. When you are baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are going to know, and everyone around you who is witness to it will know.

[Jay]

Further, we know that they had the same evidence in Corinth, because Paul makes very specific reference to praying in tongues and speaking with the 'gift of tongues'. Further, as it was anticipated that these letters would be read throughout the churches, it was anticipated that these things would also be commonly known and understood. How would that have been the case if the people reading the letter had never had the experience of speaking in other tongues, as they did in Acts?