QUESTION: Did This UPC pastor Steal Money from the church?? you decide

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

T ...

my father pastored a moderately sized church ....in NYC ... with over 350 members ...

Yet he was bi-vocational for over 15 years ... my mom worked her job to the day he died .... he never commanded more than 30k as a pastor.

A considerable amount of these men are squeezing their folks ... T ...

They have a distorted view of money and the effort people put in to attain it.

I believe this matter should not be handled in the courts but this man is accountable for his actions ...

why don't you believe it should not be handled in the courts?
are you saying that no law was broken ?

[Thad]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

If they want to offer money to help out a brother, that's fine...

but see what happens here? because of one man's foolish decision, so many people are put into a very bad spot... what gets me is that these things don't just happen over night. they are planned.... it's not like you just slipped up and stole... it was a process............ and yes, he needs mercy... Thank God we wake up with a brand new mercy each morning.

It's my understanding that the money is being raised to bail him out

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Thad

why don't you believe it should not be handled in the courts?
are you saying that no law was broken ?

That is up to the state to decide ... yet the bible says we should not take our brethren to court ...

If state decides a crime has been committed so may it be ...

[Trouvere]

Its too late Brother Daniel.The class action law suit is going to go in front of a judge.Is not about taking up for any side.The brother was wrong to lie and hide
and cheat and steal that is true but it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve mercy.The thief on the cross did not deserve mercy.We cannot project our own experiences into the situation.God is God and He is Soverign.He will take care of the Brother.
The law of reaping and sowing is a spiritual law that is always in effect.I would hate to hear the first hand yaking that is going on at that church......eek

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Its too late Brother Daniel.The class action law suit is going to go in front of a judge.Is not about taking up for any side.The brother was wrong to lie and hide
and cheat and steal that is true but it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve mercy.The thief on the cross did not deserve mercy.We cannot project our own experiences into the situation.God is God and He is Soverign.He will take care of the Brother.
The law of reaping and sowing is a spiritual law that is always in effect.I would hate to hear the first hand yaking that is going on at that church......eek

The thief at the cross got mercy ... and still died the death of a criminal

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The thief at the cross got mercy ... and still died the death of a criminal

I am sure he will get prosecuted Brother but the thing is that he is going to reap it.You can't escape that even if you are forgiven.Its not a pretty picture.The thing
is that those involved have to be given the chance to hear what the bible says
about mercy and decide to take the higher road.I don't mean the church should not get the money returned or the whole family does not need to leave the pastorate but they need someone to help them out spiritually now.
Once we were a part of a wonderful church and the pastor resigned.He felt led to take another congregations.They loved him dearly and were very hurt.The new
pastor came in and preached The Way of the Eagle.The title of the book by John
Arcovio.It was so beautiful how those eagles took care of their hurting.God knows how.None of us deserve mercy.The sin that Jesus bore on Calvary causing precious blood to be shared still works
for us.The man may have repented and is sorry so we need to be careful and not pull things out from under the blood of Jesus lest He charge us with lying.

[Thad]

BTW Dan, the article I post was dated June 7, 2007
so this is the updated news thank you !

[CC1]

To me the saddest part, if true, is a man of God letting his emotions as a father rule his mind rather than honesty and integrity.

I am speaking about the part where it says the father who is the former pastor said at a bible study that the church should not ask his son what happened to the money, that he had made a mistake and they should just forgive him and move on.

That lack of accountibility was probably there throughout their lives and could be why the son did not have integrity. If you have parents that constantly bail you out of trouble and make excuses for you it makes a strong moral grounding just about impossible.

[CC1]

By the way folks lets not confuse mercy in the sense of God's ability to forgive us of horrible things and our eternal salvation being secured with justice.

I have no doubt this man can receive forgiveness for his lying, cheating, and mistakes from God and those church members willing to do so.

However he will also have to answer to justice for his actions. I believe church members could forgive him personaly for his actions and still seek justice for his actions.

This would be similar to a parent who forgives the murderer of their child but still wants that person to receive the just punishment for their crime.

[TalkLady]

I'd believe this "in a heartbeat"...No surprise to me at all.