Oh WAKE UP people!!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Rudy

John 19:9-11 (New King James Version
9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above

I understand the point but how do we determine the context? If our country is being invaded is that in God's plan and we must not resist?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

John 19:9-11 (New King James Version
9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above

Again, a scripture posted which contains a statement with which no one disagrees. Absolutely true; Pilate had no power over Jesus without it being given him.

That doesn't mean we are to be lazy and do nothing in civil government.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by n david

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was informed and used his political knowledge for both his personal benefit (to save his life) and as you state, to benefit the kingdom of God.

Paul's ministry was to build the early church. That was his role. We all have various roles, which include being active in civil government. How else can there be good rulers as apposed to the evil rulers, if Christians were not to be involved in civil government.

You don't have to be a Christian to be a good ruler. Source: the Bible.

[Rudy]

Psalm 103:19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens; And His sovereignty rules over all.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Psalm 103:19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens; And His sovereignty rules over all.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. No one argues what this scripture is saying. Obviously the Lord rules over all.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by n david

Not sure what this has to do with anything. No one argues what this scripture is saying. Obviously the Lord rules over all.

He is in charge of human government--yes?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Rudy

He is in charge of human government--yes?

I can do this as well.

Ps 47:8
God reigns over the nations, God sits on His holy throne.

Col 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him.

1 Chron 29:11, 12
Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all

We can write all the scriptures about God being above all, in control of all; that He alone both sets up and brings down governments.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Christians should be involved in civil government. Nothing. So yes, to answer the same question you ask over and over, yes God is in control.

No one is arguing that.

Here's a question for you: Do you believe God to be so limited and small that He cannot be in control if a Christian becomes involved in civil government? Does God suddenly lose power?

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Originalist

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

Originally Posted by n david

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

I'd say getting involved in government is pretty different from civil disobedience. As per civil disobedience, wouldn't Rom 13 be against that?

Rom 13 (context: Roman Government)
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by n david

I can do this as well.

Ps 47:8
God reigns over the nations, God sits on His holy throne.

Col 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him.

1 Chron 29:11, 12
Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all

We can write all the scriptures about God being above all, in control of all; that He alone both sets up and brings down governments.

It has nothing to do with whether or not Christians should be involved in civil government. Nothing. So yes, to answer the same question you ask over and over, yes God is in control.

No one is arguing that.

Here's a question for you: Do you believe God to be so limited and small that He cannot be in control if a Christian becomes involved in civil government? Does God suddenly lose power?

Please show me a scripture which says Christians should not be involved in civil government, not these others about God ruling above all.

Secular government tends to be adversarial.

To me nothing wrong in giving advice to those in leadership. Would not say it would be sin to be in civil government either.

If God appoints authority, sets them up or down. Rules in the kingdom of men etc. Are we to oust those who are not lining up to our views and standards?

Do you believe God is so limited and small that he cannot remove leadership in civil government without our help?

Remember the king who ate grass for awhile?

Did God make a mistake giving power to Obama?

[shazeep]

Pretty succinct, Rudy--amen.

Countries come and go; nations remain. How can "not (involved) in the world" and "active in politics" (ps--or "religion," for that matter) coexist? Many, many people who consider themselves believers will be led astray here. Don't fool yourself.