Once Saved Always Saved

[Godsdrummer]

Reading down through the post, I realize that everyone responded with there own view of what they believe OSAS means. If we have not learned anything else on AFF, we should have learned we cannot put someone into a box of what we think they believe bases on a statement like "I believe in OSAS salvation".

Stop putting people into a box of preconceived perceptions, each individual is different, and most times sees things a bit different from someone else. Before blowing someone out of the water trying to convert them to something, first find out how and what they believe don't just assume you know.

Example I have discussed the trinity with many people over the course of my life. When I was younger I would assume they believed the trinity the way I had been told they believe it by my pastor. I argued from that point of view, and never really got anyone to change their view point. In later years I began to probe their beliefs and understanding, and found many of the lay people actually saw oneness, more than trinity. So I used the common ground and was able to show them into oneness the rest of the way.

With OSAS the first thing I see thrown out is "you can sin all you want because once saved you are always saved" Friends that is BS. There may be a small minority that believe they can sin and still be saved, but the vast majority believe that someone that does not live for God, was never saved in the first place.

Anyway the whole point to this long post is to ask the question, Why do you feel you must persuade this person to believe exactly the way you do? Does she not have a Christian spirit, does she not love to study the bible, has her belief caused your bible group to become confused, is her life lived as a example of Christ?
Just maybe God put her in your group because there is a middle road between the two belief he wants you to find.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I address OSAS and other related views here, if anyone cares to read:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...redestination/

Excellent rebuttal against predestination, Aaron!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Reading down through the post, I realize that everyone responded with there own view of what they believe OSAS means. If we have not learned anything else on AFF, we should have learned we cannot put someone into a box of what we think they believe bases on a statement like "I believe in OSAS salvation".

Stop putting people into a box of preconceived perceptions, each individual is different, and most times sees things a bit different from someone else. Before blowing someone out of the water trying to convert them to something, first find out how and what they believe don't just assume you know.

Example I have discussed the trinity with many people over the course of my life. When I was younger I would assume they believed the trinity the way I had been told they believe it by my pastor. I argued from that point of view, and never really got anyone to change their view point. In later years I began to probe their beliefs and understanding, and found many of the lay people actually saw oneness, more than trinity. So I used the common ground and was able to show them into oneness the rest of the way.

With OSAS the first thing I see thrown out is "you can sin all you want because once saved you are always saved" Friends that is BS. There may be a small minority that believe they can sin and still be saved, but the vast majority believe that someone that does not live for God, was never saved in the first place.

Anyway the whole point to this long post is to ask the question, Why do you feel you must persuade this person to believe exactly the way you do? Does she not have a Christian spirit, does she not love to study the bible, has her belief caused your bible group to become confused, is her life lived as a example of Christ?
Just maybe God put her in your group because there is a middle road between the two belief he wants you to find.

So the original poster should do what you did NOT do here in your post? Roger, that...

[good samaritan]

The teaching of osas is a very destructive teaching. To some people it may not matter because they desire to please God regardless. To others it is a false security that they have to continue in willful sin. The teaching must be corrected for the sake of all. false doctrine doesn't balance out the church. I agree we must try to enter friendly dialogue and not come out with guns blazing. Prayer should be made in advance if possible before entering such bible studies. Sometimes we can only shake the dust off of our feet and move on.

[houston]

GD,

Thanks for that post.

[houston]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The teaching of osas is a very destructive teaching. To some people it may not matter because they desire to please God regardless. To others it is a false security that they have to continue in willful sin. The teaching must be corrected for the sake of all. false doctrine doesn't balance out the church. I agree we must try to enter friendly dialogue and not come out with guns blazing. Prayer should be made in advance if possible before entering such bible studies. Sometimes we can only shake the dust off of our feet and move on.

I lean toward Calvinism. At this point I know more Calvinists than OP's.
I do not know one Calvinist that believes a child of God can continue to live in willful sin.

[shazeep]

false doctrine may not balance, but its fruit is at some point revealed, and i agree with GD that there is likely a middle ground, as evidenced by the lack of any conclusive "proof" for either side. This tells me that the question is likely irrelevant in some way, like most human questions are. If osas is deemed a license for one to sin against another, v some version of 'blessed assurance,' then this will quickly out either way; and then might be the time to shake the dust off, or not.

I've never been very comfortable with "saved" as a label, as an either/or choice, anyway. On/off. Yes/no. Life just doesn't work that way--not even spiritual life, i don't think.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by houston

I lean toward Calvinism. At this point I know more Calvinists than OP's.
I do not know one Calvinist that believes a child of God can continue to live in willful sin.

I was at a baptist funeral. The preacher knew the man who passed was a drunkard. He said he wasn't sure of his relationship with God at the time of death, but he knew at an earlier point in life he gave his heart to God. So he's in heaven.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hebrews 6:4-8 utterly refutes OSAS.

Romans 11:20-21 does likewise.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not all Baptists who believe OSAS are Calvinists. Many just simply believe once you get saved you cannot afterwards be lost regardless of what you do. Calvinists would reject such a notion.

Heb 10:26 is speaking about under the Mosaic economy presumptuous sin had no offering to take care of it. And there is no additional offering for us either if we sin presumptuously. But if we press it to mean once saved and you voluntarily sin you face judgment, then we are in effect saying nobody will be saved, for who can say they NEVER ONCE SINNED after becoming a Christian?

I do understand that much like the Trinity, there can be a vast difference of what people believe in such doctrines as the Trinity, OSAS, and so on.

I am not trying to make this a hill to live or die on for our friendship and fellowship, but I just wanted to be aware of the various scriptures, and ideas that are born out of this OSAS doctrine, to be informed. She wants to discuss it, and so, I need to know. If she is open to seeing it in a different light, I would like to be prepared.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Reading down through the post, I realize that everyone responded with there own view of what they believe OSAS means. If we have not learned anything else on AFF, we should have learned we cannot put someone into a box of what we think they believe bases on a statement like "I believe in OSAS salvation".

Stop putting people into a box of preconceived perceptions, each individual is different, and most times sees things a bit different from someone else. Before blowing someone out of the water trying to convert them to something, first find out how and what they believe don't just assume you know.

Example I have discussed the trinity with many people over the course of my life. When I was younger I would assume they believed the trinity the way I had been told they believe it by my pastor. I argued from that point of view, and never really got anyone to change their view point. In later years I began to probe their beliefs and understanding, and found many of the lay people actually saw oneness, more than trinity. So I used the common ground and was able to show them into oneness the rest of the way.

With OSAS the first thing I see thrown out is "you can sin all you want because once saved you are always saved" Friends that is BS. There may be a small minority that believe they can sin and still be saved, but the vast majority believe that someone that does not live for God, was never saved in the first place.

Anyway the whole point to this long post is to ask the question, Why do you feel you must persuade this person to believe exactly the way you do? Does she not have a Christian spirit, does she not love to study the bible, has her belief caused your bible group to become confused, is her life lived as a example of Christ?
Just maybe God put her in your group because there is a middle road between the two belief he wants you to find.

I think you've come out swinging at me GD, without fully understanding what I was asking. I have no intention to make this a fight to the bitter end with her. She wants to discuss it, and I wanted to know the various scriptures/ideas associated with it. If she is hungering for more truth, I want to be prepared. If she is closed minded about it, then I don't want her to stop coming to our meetings, because the Lord could still touch her heart. I obviously know that there is a vast difference between what the hard core Calvinists and Trinitarians believe, as opposed to the typical layman in the church.

I appreciate your input nonetheless, and agree with you completely in that this is not something to wrangle over if she is not open to seeing it in a different light.

I am writing down all the pro and con scriptures, just to have as a reference.