ah, i'm sorry, let me be more clear, as you say "unread and ignored." I mean A POX ON THAT as a belief system, and it is not associated with the heart, but the head, wadr, as can be demonstrated in Scripture. i would even go so far as to frame this belief system as the serpent devouring the (body of, hello) the child delivered in Rev.
the baptisms that arise from hearing Jesus preached, i am all for those. But let me quote Christ one time here...lol. I am not impressed with those who come and get the t shirt with "Jesus Christ, and Him crucified" on it
because some 'obvious givens' seem to be getting a lot of resistance, wadr. It is an obvious given that no one wants to reply with their obvious reaction to someone telling them they are lost. for instance
1Co 15:1-4....Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; ..(2)....By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. ..(3)....For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ..(4)....And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
It's all he preached.
1Co 2:2....For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
And knowing his gospel was the death, burial and resurrection, we then understand what he meant by GOSPEL in these passages:
Gal 1:7-9....Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ..(8)....But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. ..(9)....As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
That is like saying...
Gal 1:7-9....Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert Christ's death for our sins according to the scriptures; ..And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures..(8)....But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach anything other than Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ..And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. ..(9)....As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach anything other than that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ..And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Peter referred to the same gospel.
The question posed in the forum asks what Peter asked:
1Pe 4:17....For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Paul gave the answer:
2Th 1:7-10....And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, ..(8)....In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: ..(9)....Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; ..(10)....When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Insert these words where you read GOSPEL:
...I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; ..And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
For that is what Paul said the gospel was.
That is not hatred. It's love. Love of the cross. Dying for people WHILE THEY ARE SINNERS. That's not satan. That's God. Loving them WHILE THEY ARE SINNERS. It's not love to have to remove the concept of sinners from the equation. That's PHILEO, not AGAPE.
This is the core question here:
The question posed in the forum asks what Peter asked:
1Pe 4:17....For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Paul gave the answer:
2Th 1:7-10....And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, ..(8)....In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: ..(9)....Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; ..(10)....When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Does that answer the question of the poll? If not, why not? Thanks, all
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I have two guide posts that drive my answer to this question... 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
This drives me to share the gospel. I don't want the lost to be lost
Then John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
This gives me the comfort that no matter my efforts, God has his own plan in his own way.
I am required to take the gospel he has given me to every place I can. To share his word as best I can in all the ways I can.
But it is God that saves. not me.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
This drives me to share the gospel. I don't want the lost to be lost.
then you are compelled to consider the extent to which you are calling others into a system of mutual agreement, verbally binding, and inviting them into making a promise that they do not understand based upon fear, possibly, largely depending upon how the hearer takes you, no matter how sincere you might be.
it does not matter how much you disavow that all i have to do to be considered accepted is agree with you verbally, if that is in fact the truth. And if it is a lie, then tell me at what stage blood is required, skin, to make the contract any different. Is it possible you have been invited into a system of killing people, trampling Christ, putting Him on a t shirt, depending upon how literally they take you at your word that agreeing with you will bring them salvation, if even some few make it out? Is it at all possible that some more generous understanding of this fulfills the law and prophets might envision a better system where no words need be spoken, or some other interpretation of that--because that seems like a lot to rationalize away with all due respect. Hmm? Is it even possible, is all i'm asking.
“Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn’t have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks nor keys and therefore, among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn’t afford a horse, a tent, or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to civilized property. We didn’t know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don’t know how to explain how we were able to manage these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.”
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