The effects of hurting someone's family

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

of course, but this does not address the many reasons one might call themselves an atheist, and we have more than one passage that alludes to the point here.

My atheist father while he was dying said two things he never mentioned to me before. One, he said he loved me, two he said find out where I'm going and don't end up there. You see my father was my best friend, I loved him, and he loved me, but he was from a culture which never showed certain emotions. My father was big on honor, and doing the right thing. He always, always felt that Christians made it up as they went along. While in WWII he meet all types of religious people, some at their very worst moments and some of their best. Yet, he knew if their was a Jesus to meet in the here after he wasn't going to be welcomed. My father wasn't one to suffer fools lightly, didn't go from dramatic males, and didn't have the patience for those who claimed to follow Jesus, but not His words.

[shazeep]

"Yet, he knew if their was a Jesus to meet in the here after he wasn't going to be welcomed."
but he could not prove the difference in the truth and what he knew. Seems like he "knew" the same thing Isaiah knew; or was it Ezekiel?

Originally Posted by mfblume

Wrong.


...again.

lol

Even if works are not done with the intention to earn heaven, even if God chose to save them for those works then that is still salvation by works. It doesn't matter the intention. It matters what actually saves.

aww, i am praying for you, and i really hope you find Jesus someday, Mike.

Love your neighbor as yourself; that's all you gotta do.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

"Yet, he knew if their was a Jesus to meet in the here after he wasn't going to be welcomed."
but he could not prove the difference in the truth and what he knew. Seems like he "knew" the same thing Isaiah knew; or was it Ezekiel?
Love your neighbor as yourself; that's all you gotta do.

Context, thou art a rare jewel.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

aww, i am praying for you, and i really hope you find Jesus someday, Mike.

Love your neighbor as yourself; that's all you gotta do.

^

[shazeep]

or, since i guess that didn't come out like i meant, i hope you keep searching, and become open to a more complete concept of Christ.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

or, since i guess that didn't come out like i meant, i hope you keep searching, and become open to a more complete concept of Christ.

Christ and him crucified is all Paul sought to know among the churches. The crucified aspect is THE important aspect. All else is salvation by works.

Now that I see your thoughts on what you think salvation by works is, with the idea that an intention to earn it by works makes it so, and not God's decision to save by works, I can more adequately respond.

If God chose to save someone because of their good deeds of love, by their doing to others what they want others to do to them, that would be saving them by their deeds. That would still be salvation by works. It's not hard to see. It doesn't matter if one intends those works to save them or not. Sin must be remitted by shed blood of a perfect sacrifice. And one MUST BELIEVE in that as the only means of salvation possible.

There is no Christianity without the cross. Otherwise you have a crossless gospel.

[shazeep]

ok well Christ also rose, and it's funny you put that that way, because it comes across like "stuck at the crucifixion," even "presenting a crucifix," RCC style. God will not punish you for seeking other perspectives of Christ, which do have value. "Love your neighbor" is not just about works, i don't think.