Salvation depends on doctrine! - Page 4

mfblume · #31 12-09-2017, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is without doubt some of the most important teaching to hit this forum.

Two peas in a pod who will receive stricter judgment since what is meted out will return.

Paul said that there is one Spirit and one faith. But he said to keep unity of the Spirit til we all come to unity of faith. That means they were in unity of Spirit but not in unity of faith.

This view you propose says that we should rather keep unity of faith and keep unity of Spirit. Paul implied some were not in proper faith in the churches. Did he say they were lost. No. Obviously they were Acts 2:38 saved. But they did not have the faith properly down pat. He would not say they were to keep unity of the Spirit til they come to unity of the faith if they were lost in disunity of faith. And you cannot be in unity of Spirit if you=r faith is offkey because one cannot have one detail of teaching wrong. One could not be in unity of Spirit til they come to unity of faith. This proposal you make means that everyone is only in unity of Spirit if everyone is in unity of faith. And that voids Paul's whole point.

mfblume · #32 12-09-2017, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Straw man. Nobody here is claiming anything more than what the Scriptures actually say, although some (you included) seem to be claiming a lot less than what the Scriptures actually say.

Always amuses me how people misrepresent things in order to provide cover for disregarding Bible truth.

Do you believe people who do not observe the sabbath are lost? Simple yes or no will suffice.

Michael The Disciple · #33 12-09-2017, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Two peas in a pod who will receive stricter judgment since what is meted out will return.

Paul said that there is one Spirit and one faith. But he said to keep unity of the Spirit til we all come to unity of faith. That means they were in unity of Spirit but not in unity of faith.

This view you propose says that we should rather keep unity of faith and keep unity of Spirit. Paul implied some were not in proper faith in the churches. Did he say they were lost. No. Obviously they were Acts 2:38 saved. But they did not have the faith properly down pat. He would not say they were to keep unity of the Spirit til they come to unity of the faith if they were lost in disunity of faith. And you cannot be in unity of Spirit if you=r faith is offkey because one cannot have one detail of teaching wrong. One could not be in unity of Spirit til they come to unity of faith. This proposal you make means that everyone is only in unity of Spirit if everyone is in unity of faith. And that voids Paul's whole point.

You couldn't be more wrong.

1 Cor 1:10

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This is Gods will. Why do you resist?

Its true they were not all in the unity of the faith. But that was the purpose of the ministry to bring them into it. If they refused to heed the words of correction given by the Apostles they were counted "heretics".

Titus 3:10

10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Are the heretics going into the kingdom?

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

No not according to the Apostle.

If one has the attitude no one can know the full truth they should not be teaching the word of God.

1 Tim. 1:3

3As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

But you have your Apostolic "light" doctrine. So anyone can believe and teach whatever they want and still be saved......as long as they have done Acts 2:38!

Michael The Disciple · #34 12-09-2017, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Two peas in a pod who will receive stricter judgment since what is meted out will return.

On the other hand the one who teaches heresies will not enter the kingdom. They could be an angel of light, or simply a worker of flesh. Either way they will be lost if they dont accept the correction.

So its not what WE WANT to be true but rather what was the Apostles doctrine.

thephnxman · #35 12-09-2017, 07:40 AM

His NAME is Jesus!

"To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from
God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour."(Tit 1:4)

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly
contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3)

There is one gospel that saves that is common to all men, as the preceding
scriptures declare: "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism...". All who will be
saved, will be saved in like manner. However, we must also acknowledge the
faith that is peculiar to each individual.

"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth
not himself in that thing which he alloweth."
Some have the faith of children, and their trust in those things cannot, and should
not, be disputed; others have faith to share and impart what they have received,
and that also should not be disputed. Then there are those whose prayers can
move mountains! But NONE OF US have the right or authority to question the
faith of anyone else based upon OUR PERSONAL faith!

May each of you abide and grow in the faith you have received.

Brother Villa

Sean · #36 12-09-2017, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

There can be no learning or growth without error.

Clearly if one has been born again many decades, we should expect that their knowledge of Scripture is more clear and deeper than the understanding of one who has been born again for only a week. Both are clearly born again, saved. And both will continue to grow and refine their understandings, discarding errors, and embracing greater understandings.

I've evolved from the traditional Pre-Trib Dispensational position to more Post Trib Covenantal theology, and even now I'm learning and studying Preterism. I was also a born in the wool legalist who believed in institutional religion. Today, I'm more of a Christian Anarchist. Was I "unsaved" prior to my current understanding?

I see now, you are a 3 stepper preterist....LOL

I wonder if leaving pretrib ends up preterist?

It may be the process.

Sean · #37 12-09-2017, 08:03 AM

Michael, Esaias and Originalist......better watch out, you are 1 step from preterism.(no wonder they were taking side with you guys).

mfblume · #38 12-09-2017, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

On the other hand the one who teaches heresies will not enter the kingdom. They could be an angel of light, or simply a worker of flesh. Either way they will be lost if they dont accept the correction.

So its not what WE WANT to be true but rather what was the Apostles doctrine.

Amen it's what the apostles taught. And they taught about unity in Spirit until unity of faith.

mfblume · #39 12-09-2017, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You couldn't be more wrong.

\

Of course. I disagree with you.

Quote:

1 Cor 1:10

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This is Gods will. Why do you resist?

How come you cannot deal with Eph 4? Why jump around the passage I claimed proves you wrong? Why not show the true context of Ehp 4?

Quote:

Its true they were not all in the unity of the faith. But that was the purpose of the ministry to bring them into it. If they refused to heed the words of correction given by the Apostles they were counted "heretics".

And Paul said they still had unity of the Spirit.

Quote:

Titus 3:10

10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Are the heretics going into the kingdom?

Are you saying hereticks had unity of the Spirit? Deal with Eph 4.

Quote:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

No not according to the Apostle.

You are just throwing out verses and not dealing with context nor how they relate to what he said in Eph 4.

If one has the attitude no one can know the full truth they should not be teaching the word of God.

Quote:

1 Tim. 1:3

3As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

But you have your Apostolic "light" doctrine. So anyone can believe and teach whatever they want and still be saved......as long as they have done Acts 2:38!

No I do not have apostolic light doctrine. You have your own version of what light docctrine is that nobody adheres to.

Now, deal with Eph 4 properly.

mfblume · #40 12-09-2017, 09:24 AM

It is a form of legalism LEGALISM to say beliefs apart from what atones for and remits our sins, after one adhered to the doctrine that teaches proper atonement and remission of sins, cause one to be lost.

MTD,

Do you believe one who keeps sabbath is lost?

Do you believe one who does not keep sabbath is lost?

We've to two people who claim all doctrines must be perfect in one's heart or one is lost. One keeps sabbath and the other does not. One especially points to eschatology for salvation.

(Watch how we get no direct answer.)