Wine vs Grape Juice

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Jesus was accused of both?

Yes, but what do they have to do with each other?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, but what do they have to do with each other?

They are both addictions. Show lack of control. No TEMPERANCE.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, strong drink was allowed, but no over drinking the strong drink.
That would be left up to the individual's constitution.

Still, me kicking back with a "flagon" of dark stout just won't look good.

Why does it not look good? Because we have said it is not good. It has been our tradition for many years. We have painted ourselves into a corner repeatedly for decades concerning a variety of issues: drinking, television, internet, red dresses, Facebook, and you name it.

We preach for doctrine the commandments of men. That’s how we do it.

[Amanah]

Preachers have attempted to maintain a wall of separation from the world and as we become more liberal we also become more worldly. Jesus often withdrew to lonely places for times of prayer. We are pressed on every side with the worldly influence of television, internet and Facebook. Psychologists are telling people to unplug because being constantly connected to social media causes people to be unhappy. It's mostly fake news, and when we compare ourselves to others fake lives we become depressed.

Alcoholism destroys families and lives. We should separate from it for the sake of others, one persons liberty can be another person's destruction.

Maybe early civilizations incorporated wine in a much different manner then we do. In our civilization, if someone sees a us drinking wine it gives them a false sense of liberty to consume alcohol to their destruction.

We are not at the point where preachers are setting boundaries that are too constraining. We are at the point where worldliness is drowning out the voice of God. We are at the point where it's more important to receive a person's tithes, then preach against sin and worldliness and have a person walk.

We have bucked the old paths and bucked and bucked till some have become wearied with making a stand, but you will reap the results with your kids and grandkids because they will lose the message altogether. They will think nothing of having children out of wedlock, or having a drink at the local bar, or watching the worst perversions on media.

If you are so keen to tell the truth about alcohol please include statistics on ruined lives.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Why does it not look good? Because we have said it is not good. It has been our tradition for many years. We have painted ourselves into a corner repeatedly for decades concerning a variety of issues: drinking, television, internet, red dresses, Facebook, and you name it.

We preach for doctrine the commandments of men. That’s how we do it.

Doesnt look good? Dude, Jesus created a massive amount of FERMENTED WINE as his first miracle.

He wasnt just caught with a can....He passed out kegs!

You cant start retroactively declaring stuff sin!

Lack of moderation IS sin but how weird is something to be declared sin that Christ and all the disciples participated in?

"Well if you sin, you lose the Holy Ghost because God wont dwell in a unclean temple."

Ok, if drinking is automatically sin, how was Christ able to be a perfect sinless sacrifice?

Preaching something as sin without it actually being sin does NOT make that thing sin and to do so is to declare yourself more righteous than Christ.

"Hey Jesus, um yeah me and the board decided that the water into wine thing, since it was actually alcoholic, is a big no no for us so we are voting you out."

Again....honesty.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Why does it not look good? Because we have said it is not good. It has been our tradition for many years. We have painted ourselves into a corner repeatedly for decades concerning a variety of issues: drinking, television, internet, red dresses, Facebook, and you name it.

We preach for doctrine the commandments of men. That’s how we do it.

We must be careful to avoid offending others, even if we have liberty to do something. It's not all about what we can do.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Preachers have attempted to maintain a wall of separation from the world and as we become more liberal we also become more worldly. Jesus often withdrew to lonely places for times of prayer. We are pressed on every side with the worldly influence of television, internet and Facebook. Psychologists are telling people to unplug because being constantly connected to social media causes people to be unhappy. It's mostly fake news, and when we compare ourselves to others fake lives we become depressed.

Alcoholism destroys families and lives. We should separate from it for the sake of others, one persons liberty can be another person's destruction.

Maybe early civilizations incorporated wine in a much different manner then we do. In our civilization, if someone sees a us drinking wine it gives them a false sense of liberty to consume alcohol to their destruction.

We are not at the point where preachers are setting boundaries that are too constraining. We are at the point where worldliness is drowning out the voice of God. We are at the point where it's more important to receive a person's tithes, then preach against sin and worldliness and have a person walk.

We have bucked the old paths and bucked and bucked till some have become wearied with making a stand, but you will reap the results with your kids and grandkids because they will lose the message altogether. They will think nothing of having children out of wedlock, or having a drink at the local bar, or watching the worst perversions on media.

If you are so keen to tell the truth about alcohol please include statistics on ruined lives.

Awesome post.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Doesnt look good? Dude, Jesus created a massive amount of FERMENTED WINE as his first miracle.

He wasnt just caught with a can....He passed out kegs!

You cant start retroactively declaring stuff sin!

Lack of moderation IS sin but how weird is something to be declared sin that Christ and all the disciples participated in?

"Well if you sin, you lose the Holy Ghost because God wont dwell in a unclean temple."

Ok, if drinking is automatically sin, how was Christ able to be a perfect sinless sacrifice?

Preaching something as sin without it actually being sin does NOT make that thing sin and to do so is to declare yourself more righteous than Christ.

"Hey Jesus, um yeah me and the board decided that the water into wine thing, since it was actually alcoholic, is a big no no for us so we are voting you out."

Again....honesty.

15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

17 For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.




Is that why Jesus was crucified?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Sean

15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

17 For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.




Is that why Jesus was crucified?

Pretty sure thats talking of getting someone drunk to take sexual advantage of them.....not the same thing bro.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Doesnt look good? Dude, Jesus created a massive amount of FERMENTED WINE as his first miracle.

He wasnt just caught with a can....He passed out kegs!

You cant start retroactively declaring stuff sin!

Lack of moderation IS sin but how weird is something to be declared sin that Christ and all the disciples participated in?

"Well if you sin, you lose the Holy Ghost because God wont dwell in a unclean temple."

Ok, if drinking is automatically sin, how was Christ able to be a perfect sinless sacrifice?

Preaching something as sin without it actually being sin does NOT make that thing sin and to do so is to declare yourself more righteous than Christ.

"Hey Jesus, um yeah me and the board decided that the water into wine thing, since it was actually alcoholic, is a big no no for us so we are voting you out."

Again....honesty.

This is my point. How can we retroactively declare something sin that Jesus did and Paul recommended? Then we want to talk about we may have liberty to do so but we may cause others to be weak.

Let’s go back to the gluttony thing. Do we refrain from eating in front of someone because they have a “weakness” for eating? Do we talk about people who are digging their own grave with a fork and a spoon?

Temperance is a fruit 🍉 🍌 🍎 of the Spirit. We preach abstinence instead. Because we are all or nothing. Temperance is not all or nothing. Temperance is “have a LITTLE wine”.

I’m just having fun with this.

But it does bother me when people preach against something Jesus did. Do you honestly think 🤔 that people didn’t get drunk in Jesus time?

“These are not drunk, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the ninth hour” . . .

But we justify preaching what our traditions agree with, and we justify NOT preaching what our traditions DON’T agree with, without regard for what the Bible says. Tithes is a prime example.