The Recent Accusation of Racism Against the UPCI

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm saying since you said it "bothers" you that there aren't more blacks and browns in leadership positions in the UPC, are you also likewise "bothered" that there aren't more (any?) whites in leadership positions in the PAW or COOLJC?

I have noticed that basically all the "bothersomeness" about "diversity" seems only be directed at white-majority institutions, but everyone seems fine with black or brown or yellow or red majority institutions. Almost like "diversity" is a proposed virtue for only one group of people...

You make good points Esaias.

I believe the concern should be that we are not discriminating against anyone, but we accept all that God adds to the church and calls/gifts for ministry. And I believe this is the case with the UPCI.

We don't need Apostolic Affirmative Action.

[houston]

We don’t attend the PAW or COOLJC. Some of us do attend the UPCI.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

What about given the CALLING.

This is what sister Amanah just alluded to. All too often, the demand for more diversity and "equalization" amounts to a demand for a quota, irrespective of quality, merit, or actual usefulness. In other words, "affirmative action". There aren't enough non-whites at the helm of the mothership, so we'd better get busy and appoint some - just because. Which is...

... classically racist, by the way. Appointing people to leadership JUST BECAUSE of ethnicity is about the purest form of racism possible.

On the flip side, completely ignoring ethnicity is a disservice and is dishonest (does not comport with reality). Who better to pastor Eskimos in Greenland than a converted Eskimo? I don't see anyone in the NT demanding the church in Jerusalem needed more "gentile diversity in its leadership", either.

The whole subject of " race" or ethnicity has been wrecked beyond possibility of reasonable discourse in most cases by activists and virtue signallers on all sides, none of whom are actually neutral, actually concerned about what's good for people, or actually interested in thinking about it Biblically.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

We don’t attend the PAW or COOLJC. Some of us do attend the UPCI.

So who cares about the PAW or COOLJC, then? Okie dokie, so since some of us don't attend the UPCI either, I guess who cares about that, too!

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So who cares about the PAW or COOLJC, then? Okie dokie, so since some of us don't attend the UPCI either, I guess who cares about that, too!

Practice those moves front of a mirra?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

Practice those moves front of a mirra?

I video my moves and play them back at 1/4 speed so I can get 'em down just right. I need more sequins on my white suit, though.

"Well, you can telllll by the way I use my walk...."

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Are you advocating for religious segregation? My pointing out a lack of diversity among leadership of the UPCI has nothing to do with any other organization.

Please understand, I'm 100% for the UPCI. I just believe this is an area we can do better. I have many black and hispanic brothers that will make dynamic pastors one day, if given the opportunity.

Can we fulfill the Great Commission without position?



Shouldnt that be our primary focus instead of jockeying for position and getting hurt when we dont get that position?




Mark 10:43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.



I have an ex friend whose father lost a church to another pastor that a board voted in...he was so caught up and obsessed over his destiny and Gods will being that HE was to pastor that church...thing is....he was doing absolutely nothing to minister to anyone while waiting...it was all about "I cant be effective until I have that position."


Go look at the old time Pentecostal pioneers who believed that once you spoke in tongues it automatically was a sentencing to the mission fields.


They would do their best to identify what language was being spoken when they were filled and then they would go....no board...no support...they believed and trusted God and God performed wonders and as they went He supplied the needs.


It was a precious thing and they suffered greatly but to them it was worth it.


The early church was beaten, stoned, boiled in oil, torn by wild dogs for being believers and preaching the gospel...nobody GAVE them a church...they WERE the church!


Their lack of position among men did not stop them from their ministry because they knew who they were in Christ!


Someone wants to be a pastor? Fine! Go witness and minister and form a congregation of believers and meet in homes!



Nobody is stopping you and cant stop you!


Dont whine and complain because no one will place you in your desired position in a man made organization.


If youre doing that, your priority isnt in the work...HIS work.


Big ole lost and dying world out here folks and they dont care about your nice suits and your crafted sermons and your artificial "atmospheres" and your churchisms and how gravelly you can make your preachers voice.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I video my moves and play them back at 1/4 speed so I can get 'em down just right. I need more sequins on my white suit, though.

"Well, you can telllll by the way I use my walk...."

LOL

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm saying since you said it "bothers" you that there aren't more blacks and browns in leadership positions in the UPC, are you also likewise "bothered" that there aren't more (any?) whites in leadership positions in the PAW or COOLJC?

I have noticed that basically all the "bothersomeness" about "diversity" seems only be directed at white-majority institutions, but everyone seems fine with black or brown or yellow or red majority institutions. Almost like "diversity" is a proposed virtue for only one group of people...

I am actually bothered by reverse racism in black institutions. I have never been a part of those organizations, so I choose to restrict my opinions towards a realm I am somewhat familiar.

Allow me to clarify my statement. We need more God called pastors and preachers of every color, every background.

I am not seeking any position. Honestly, I don't know where you would get that from what I posted. My friends that I mentioned are going out and preaching. I have a black friend that has started a nursing home ministry and will very soon be starting a new church by having Bible study in his home. I have a Puerto Rican friend that started a brand new bus route this week and had 16 people on it the first Sunday.

I've heard Bro. Urshan say, Sunday is the most racist day of the week. If we're truly the church, it shouldn't be so.

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Can we fulfill the Great Commission without position?



Shouldnt that be our primary focus instead of jockeying for position and getting hurt when we dont get that position?




Mark 10:43But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.



I have an ex friend whose father lost a church to another pastor that a board voted in...he was so caught up and obsessed over his destiny and Gods will being that HE was to pastor that church...thing is....he was doing absolutely nothing to minister to anyone while waiting...it was all about "I cant be effective until I have that position."


Go look at the old time Pentecostal pioneers who believed that once you spoke in tongues it automatically was a sentencing to the mission fields.


They would do their best to identify what language was being spoken when they were filled and then they would go....no board...no support...they believed and trusted God and God performed wonders and as they went He supplied the needs.


It was a precious thing and they suffered greatly but to them it was worth it.


The early church was beaten, stoned, boiled in oil, torn by wild dogs for being believers and preaching the gospel...nobody GAVE them a church...they WERE the church!


Their lack of position among men did not stop them from their ministry because they knew who they were in Christ!


Someone wants to be a pastor? Fine! Go witness and minister and form a congregation of believers and meet in homes!



Nobody is stopping you and cant stop you!


Dont whine and complain because no one will place you in your desired position in a man made organization.


If youre doing that, your priority isnt in the work...HIS work.


Big ole lost and dying world out here folks and they dont care about your nice suits and your crafted sermons and your artificial "atmospheres" and your churchisms and how gravelly you can make your preachers voice.

Please let me know where I said anything that makes you think I'm jockeying for a position. My only point is that we need more pastors and preachers of different backgrounds, color, etc. I'm sorry if this offends. It is just an observation of mine.

Gravelly voices and nice suits??? What are you even talking about?

I'll say again. I am a white man and a preacher.