MARK JOHNSTON DROPS THE BOMB....The Aftermath - Page 4

J-Roc · #31 10-01-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He was not preaching to the foundation. He was preaching to MEN. How long an organization has been around is irrelevant. Paul admonished already settled churches. The Holy Spirit did too in Revelation. We have men that have not been around since the founding. Nor does the years of a foundation for an org ensures the leaders, or the general population, is going to have already arrived and be perfected and not need to reminded. Pro Football teams have years of foundation but still wisely remind themselves of the basic principles of the game, particularly if some are getting rusty. That does not mean everyone needed to hear that message either. There is no evidence the men this was aimed at have alwasy been that way.

I repeat: About how many years should the child go to 1st grade? Prax, how long should you be taught the alphabet?

J-Roc · #32 10-02-2007, 12:01 AM

So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding. (Hebrews 6)

crakjak · #33 10-02-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding. (Hebrews 6)

WOW! Even Bro. Paul agrees. Assuming he wrote Hebrews.:sshhh That's good stuff!

drummerboy_dave · #34 10-02-2007, 12:32 AM

Do you or do you not believe that the message was sent from God? That is the question, J-Roc. And here's a clue for you. We're all human! Yes, the same basic problems persist in the somebodies as they do in the nobodies. Some people want to straighten up when God reveals something to them and they seek Him for help, and other people ignore the forewarnings, thinking they weren't meant for them. Which are you? (Don't answer please).

Using language from the message, doing God's work is work. Who want's to get off their duff and do it? Some people will answer the call to be a hero and reach out for souls and some people just want to be another fat cat celebrity in the palace rubbing shoulders with the famous. Which are you? (Don't answer please).

You asked a simple question, How long should a child be taught the first grade? The answer is until he gets it right. Assuming your question is to illustrate the parallel: How long should the UPC be taught the same simple lessons? (That's your terminology by the way, truly there is much more to the message than that.) The answer is the same, until you get it right.

Praxeas · #35 10-02-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

I repeat: About how many years should the child go to 1st grade? Prax, how long should you be taught the alphabet?

1, however might he not be expected to review what he learned once he gets into the second grade before moving on to keep the things he learned fresh?

Do we never need refresher courses? BTW the issue really isn't about education...learning and memorizing facts.

Like I said...even football teams often review the basics especially when coming back from off season or when a coach feels they have lost sight of the basics. Happens often

Praxeas · #36 10-02-2007, 12:43 AM

BTW as I stated before...how old an organization is is irrelevant. He was preaching to preachers...he did not say all of them. So why is it such an issue to point out some of the ministers themselves needed correction? It happens in most churches does it not? To be reminded of direction? To be reprimanded for failures? Happened in the bible. Paul did it. Right? I don't see what the issue is. This is not the only thing they ever preach, but if this was necessary and God authored it....why complain?

drummerboy_dave · #37 10-02-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

At this stage of the game, LEADERS as a whole should not be dealing with this chronic problem. If the LEADERSHIP is in this infantile stage of development.....oy vey!

Maybe you're getting it. If the leadership has a problem, then maybe God wants to address it. Once it's dealt with you can move on.

BobDylan · #38 10-02-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Still pondering the message given by Mark Johnston on Saturday night at GC Tampa and I can’t help wonder about all of this…

Here we have an organization that is over 60 years old and God speaks to the constituency through this man of God:

An the underlying message is:

1- You are seeking the best seats at GC in order to be noticed…

2- Stop seeking celebrity status (your attitude is wrong and focus is misplaced)

3- You care too much about your image and the cars you are driving in

In summary, you are carnal-minded.

After 60 years should this type of message still be preached? Is this reflective of its spiritual maturity? After 60 yrs, it still needs to be fed milk as babes and be told to grow up spiritually? After 60 yrs, shouldn’t meat be on its plates…but no, instead, God speaks to the constituency through the mouth of this preacher telling it to grow up.

Does this turn on the light bulb for anyone? What is this? Why is it necessary to be hearing this type of message if it is not reflective of a poor state?

Just wondering….

Is it possible that cons could be as guilty of this as anybody? I didn't hear the message, but I'd like to. I don't think it sounds as much of an indictment of the maturity of the organization, as it is an exposure of the maturity of this generation of pentecostals. This generation has not been weaned from the milk with this kind of preaching. This generation of upc has been satiated with prosperity message, revival at any price, thumbs-up Holy Ghost crusades, etc. etc. etc. This generation needs to hear this kind of preaching as much as any generation, even moreso. And in 20 years should the lord tarry, the next generation needs to hear it too. This kind of preaching, my brother, is meat!!! It's tough, hard to chew, but it puts muscle on the bones and hair on the chest (so to speak). This is the kind of preaching that strengthens the things that remains, it plucks up the thorny bushes, it breaks up the fallow ground, it fertilizes the unfuitful fig tree. This kind of preaching NEVER gets old, and we NEVER outgrow it! Give us more PREACHERS and fewer LEGISLATORS!!!!

--"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.... how shall they hear without a PREACHER!!!"

deacon blues · #39 10-02-2007, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Typical OP sackcloth and ashes preaching, that has been the stable for 60 years. It is easier to rant and rave at the saints than it is to set a true definitive vision. That is one reason I left the OP fellowship, no true direction, no continuing training or practical training just continual general rant and rave about how no one is doing anything right. It fills the alters with the saints but leaves them empty, general shotgun preaching that produces absolutely nothing. JMHO

How about a systematic teaching that has some real goals of discipleship, where after a few years the pew actually matures into full grown image of Jesus. This rant and raving raises the emotions but afterward leaves the hearers worse off than before.

To listen to this kind of preaching that I guess was directed at the ministry, you would think they were a bunch of heathen and reprobates!

I don't know about you, but I think most Christians NEED some sack cloth and ashes preaching once in a while. The flesh is weak, and it needs some readjusting from time to time. MJ's message wasn't ranting and raving as you put it, it was a sure Word from the Lord that frankly not only needs to be heard to OPs but to ALL of Christiandom. There is way too much celebrity-seeking in churches and movements rather than serving and ministry to the Body and to the lost.

Its easy to be an armchair quarterback....................................... ..........

deacon blues · #40 10-02-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

At this stage of the game, LEADERS as a whole should not be dealing with this chronic problem. If the LEADERSHIP is in this infantile stage of development.....oy vey!

Cheap shots, J-Roc, cheap shots.

One cannot judge an entire movement based on one sermon. And I do believe that this is a problem across the board in North America. I would say by and large most of North America battles with these kinds of temptations and allures. Hero worship comes naturally to the flesh and those who are ready and willing to be worshipped are many.

A critical and cynical attitude is evidence of shallow infantile spirituality, Roc. You should just thank God MJ obeyed the Lord, that people didn't need an "altar song" to manipulate them to the altar, and that people left rejoicing that the Lord loved them enough to chastise their carnality.

This is Christ's church and He is in control; if He wants a heavy, convicting message, then that's His prerogative. You work on Mr. Roc and let Jesus work on His church.