Bott 2020 - Page 41

Esaias · #**401** 02-14-2020, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

You can lose the HG?

Interesting question. What does it even mean to "have" the Holy Ghost? Is God's presence a thing that you can have, like your car keys? Or does "have the Spirit" mean "controlled by Jesus Christ"?

n david · #**402** 02-14-2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos

Advocate. Devil’s advocate.

Yeah, that. I blame autocorrect?

n david · #**403** 02-14-2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

No I do not believe Holy Ghost filled people can be demon possessed.

I do think there's a lot of people who think they have the Holy Ghost who may not have it.

I also think lots of people want to blame demons, the devil, the world, etc for just plain old fashioned SIN and STUBBORNNESS. Most people seeking deliverance from demon spirits actually need to repent. Sin can't be "cast out" it has to be repented of.

As for demons "attacking" Christians, I think my Father and His army of innumerable angels are FAR more powerful than some imps thinking to bother us. If a Christian can go to a conference of Christians and some woman says something and the Christian gets a demon on them BECAUSE OF THAT, that makes them sick, then my immediate thought is that Christian is probably not even saved to begin with. My second thought is they caught a germ and need some vitamin c or maybe some probiotics in their diet. My third thought is "Why are Christians acting just like superstitious pagans who don't know the True God Omnipotent?"

I also think the Bible is the FINAL AND SOLE AUTHORITY on any and all theological or doctrinal topics. So if it ain't in the Bible I don't teach it.

n david · #**404** 02-14-2020, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Interesting question. What does it even mean to "have" the Holy Ghost? Is God's presence a thing that you can have, like your car keys? Or does "have the Spirit" mean "controlled by Jesus Christ"?

Are we infilled with the HG or does the HG indwell in us?

IMO there's a difference.

If something is filled, something could happen which may cause that which fills to leak or pour out. Backsliding or "losing" the HG is due to this definition.

Indwelling is about permanence and possession. It isn't something filling us but actually possessing us. As you say, "controlled by Jesus Christ." You can't lose this.

Esaias · #**405** 02-14-2020, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

Are we infilled with the HG or does the HG indwell in us?

IMO there's a difference.

If something is filled, something could happen which may cause that which fills to leak or pour out. Backsliding or "losing" the HG is due to this definition.

Indwelling is about permanence and possession. It isn't something filling us but actually possessing us. As you say, "controlled by Jesus Christ." You can't lose this.

I think both "fill" and "dwell" are metaphors. The Spirit isn't a liquid that is poured into our bodies. Nor is the Spirit a person dwelling in a physical location as if the Spirit was a Caspar the ghost character. To be filled with the Spirit is to be voluntarily controlled by the Spirit. To have the Spirit dwelling in you is, to my understanding, the same thing. I don't believe the Spirit is a thing occupying a physical location (you, me, or etc), because God's Spirit is omnipresent. There are local manifestations of the Spirit as He affects us or the environment, but God isn't "in" a place as if He wasn't everywhere else at the same time, right?

So then "losing the Spirit" would be a matter of taking control of oneself away from God, no longer being controlled by the Spirit. Consider this:

Psalm 51:11 KJV
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Why is this written? David was a prophet, so he "had the Spirit". The things in the old testament are written for our instruction and admonition (Rom 15:4, 1 Cor 10:11, 2 Tim 3:15-17). So it seems possible that one may lose the influences of God's Spirit through sin, the Spirit may withdraw from a backslider. How else could it be possible for a Christian to backslide and wind up lost? Otherwise, backsliding could only possibly be temporary. Are backsliders who die in a backslidden state going to hell with the Holy Ghost? That doesn't make sense to me. Do we say "Well, they were never born again to begin with"? Isn't that a bit of a copout?

What do you think?

Nicodemus1968 · #**406** 02-14-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos

So far NO ONE here believes that someone can have the Holy Ghost and a demon... except maybe Armpits and Mike Blume- but Mike Blume isn’t posting here.

Thus we have the following:

1) believers can be oppressed/not possessed- same symptoms

2) backsliders lose the Holy Ghost/space then occupied by demons

3) believers can not have demons/backslid or not

4) me reading comments and eating popcorn

Explain to me the difference between oppression and Possession?

And how do you ‘loose’ the HolyGhost?

consapente89 · #**407** 02-14-2020, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I agree with you. I already said I don’t believe a Holy Ghost filled believer can be possessed. But you believe if a person is in sin, Gods spirit leaves them and a demon can then possess them?

Yes

consapente89 · #**408** 02-14-2020, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n david

You can lose the HG?

Yes...?

Is that a serious question?

diakonos · #**409** 02-14-2020, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89

Yes

Really? Scripture please

Evang.Benincasa · #**410** 02-14-2020, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consapente89

Yes...?

Is that a serious question?

1 Samuel 16:14

But The Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Then David would play his banjo, and Saul would "feel" better.

Yet, in 1 Samuel 18:10 no amount of picking was going to calm the king down.