You Be The Judge: Anderson Vs Burk

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Maybe I am wrong Bro Epley, please forgive my UPC upbringing!

That is what the UPC has taught for a long time as dispensationalism.

7 dispensations with the 7th thousand year being the millenium, the 1000 year reign, the time of perfection!

Jesus would come back physically, snatch His Bride away, in a physical rapture to consumate the wedding, then Armageddon after which the devil would be bound for the 1000 years of peace, then somewhere in there the temple is rebuilt by the Jews and they have another salvation, either through animal sacrifices or just believing, also somewhere in there the physical heavens and earth is destroyed with new ones being rebuilt for us to dwell on as kings and priests!

Is that what you believe?

As far as the 7000th year being the Millenial we will have to wait and see.
I do believe Jesus comes and catches his Bride away the tribulation begins
God again deals with Isreal, the is one world government, Jesus comes from Heaven with His Bride and saves Isreal at Armageddon then the 1000 year reign begins, at the end of the 1000 years the White Throne judgment takes place and eternity begins. Very simple but I am simple.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

They SAW Him ascend INTO Heaven with a LITERAL resurrected body they said he would return in the SAME MANNER. That is NOT what happened at Pentecost.
You are missing the resurrected LITERAL body that went into Heaven.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner373, 5158 as ye have seen him go into heaven.

G5158
From the same as G5157; a turn, that is, (by implication) mode or style (especially with preposition or relatively prefixed as adverb like); figuratively deportment or character: - (even) as, conversation, [+ like] manner (+ by any) means, way.

Where does it say that His literal Body had to come back? You are interjecting that as that is not what it says.

I guess I am missing this.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

They saw Him taken into a cloud Elder Epley, you are missing the part where He was taken into the cloud. The cloud is emphasized, because all of the scriptures dealing with cloud and presence of God. In Isaiah 19:1 God is on a swift cloud, do you want us to believe that GOD was actually physically riding on a physical cloud?

No doubt a LITERAL resurrected human body of Jesus Christ was taken up, but the main focus is that the like manner means the mode of how He is returning and that was the cloud.

Throughout the Old Testament God's presence is denoted by a cloud, and the high priest rent his clothes when he heard Jesus speak of returning on that cloud in vengeance, the only one capable of doing that was God.

Thank you Elder Epley for this discussion

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Was Jesus taken into Heaven is a symbolic cloud??????? The men saw Him ascend INTO Heaven in a cloud was it symbolic or literal?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner373, 5158 as ye have seen him go into heaven.

G5158
From the same as G5157; a turn, that is, (by implication) mode or style (especially with preposition or relatively prefixed as adverb like); figuratively deportment or character: - (even) as, conversation, [+ like] manner (+ by any) means, way.

Where does it say that His literal Body had to come back? You are interjecting that as that is not what it says.

I guess I am missing this.

They saw Him in a LITERAL resurrected body ascend INTO Heaven in cloud thus He is returning in THE SAME MANNER thus a LITERAL body in a literal cloud. Very simple to me.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

As far as the 7000th year being the Millenial we will have to wait and see.
I do believe Jesus comes and catches his Bride away the tribulation begins
God again deals with Isreal, the is one world government, Jesus comes from Heaven with His Bride and saves Isreal at Armageddon then the 1000 year reign begins, at the end of the 1000 years the White Throne judgment takes place and eternity begins. Very simple but I am simple.

Well, if you believe in 1000 year blocks then He is already late!

That is what the 7 dispensations are all about!

That is what the Mormons teach, that is what the Branhamites teach, the JW's, all are dispensationalists. All have run out of time!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NO I do NOT agree. Yes I believe in the restoration of the nation of Isreal into the favor of God.

So are you saying that did not yet happen because those who call themselves Jews over there are far from being Biblically Old Testament in favor with God. Could you explain how the unprecedented return of un repentant Jews to Palestine equate a Biblical return? Could you show us where the Jews ever returned to the promise land un repented?

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The nation MIGHT rebuild the temple-offer animal sacrifices-reinstitute the priesthood BUT God will NOT accept this.

Elder you really don't have to repeat yourself about us agreeing with you that God would never again accept animal sacrifice, but for Dispensational Pre Tribulation to work you need to have the Jews back in Jerusalem, and the temple rebuilt and animal sacrifices reinstated. You can't be dispensational and not believe the necessity of a rebuilt temple and the gathering of the Jews back to Israel to be destroyed. You see what dispensationalists did was just take a past event and place it in the future at a far off unknown time.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am a dispensationalist and I do NOT believe this.

That really makes no sense for a person to say that they are dispensationist and not hold to the major points of dispenstaionalism.

Thank you

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Steve Epley]

Isreal has been regathering mainly since the 67 war and 48. After the church leaves God will deal with them He does not have to have all the qualifications you are citing. He will pour out the Spirit of grace and supplication upon them.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

They saw Him in a LITERAL resurrected body ascend INTO Heaven in cloud thus He is returning in THE SAME MANNER thus a LITERAL body in a literal cloud. Very simple to me.

Ah, but Brother Epley, the context right before that is "the Promise of the Father", which we know is the Holy Ghost which we know is Jesus according to John 14.

Now, you set the rules that anything that was written about the return of the Lord, before Acts 2, dealt with Acts 2. Did you not?

They saw Him in a literal resurrected body ascend into a cloud and DISAPPEAR! His body, and this is my belief as I see it, his body changed into the spiritual realm. Now He is Spirit. Then in Acts 2, He, as the glorified spirit, now comes back and fills His people!

I am sorry, but it seems to me that you are reading more into that verse than is there.

That is why some look at the dispensationalists as trinitarians. Because they have Jesus ascending, going to stand by His father's right hand, then the third person of the trinity comes back on the day of Pentecost to fill them, while Jesus is still in Heaven, in physical form, waiting for the rapture!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Jason, who asked you to explain Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 first?

Be honest.

In JESUS NAME

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I answered, what's is the problem. You want an entire commentary, I gave you an overview. Perhaps you missed it:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...9&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...9&postcount=44
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...4&postcount=49

True enough you did ask me to explain Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 24 before I challenged you to a DEBATE. Which is the problem. I made the first DEBATE challenge. If we're going to "be honest" well then you ought to debate my topic, because before you ever asked me about those 3 chapters, I posted specifically in the "preterism, what is the endgame" thread about preterist explaining how Jesus mhad already returned, and how the earth would go on forever.

see:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=255


No one was even having debates, until TK and J Anderson broke it in. We all discussing this in You Be the Judge, and then I challenge you to a debate the second coming of Christ, and immediately you throw it in reverse. So if we're being honest about it, wasn't that the original challenge?

It is obvious you are not up to it, maybe AFP1996 will take the ball and run with it.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Isreal has been regathering mainly since the 67 war and 48. After the church leaves God will deal with them He does not have to have all the qualifications you are citing. He will pour out the Spirit of grace and supplication upon them.

Will they have to recieve the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2?

After all, dispensationalism believes that once That Which is perfect is come that no longer will tongues be needed. So, if after the rapture, no more tongues, therefore no more need for Acts 2?

Is that what you believe?

The problem with that belief system is that now no longer is the everlasting Gospel the everlasting Gospel. Now we have a problem because the Jews can now get in without ACTS 2:38!