There Has Been A Change

Originally Posted by crakjak

It all begins with a change of attitude. Your past does not define your future, all around you there are folks, not as smart as you that are making lots of money. If you don't have your finances in order already, get Dave Ramsey's book, "Total Money Makeover" and follow it without fail and you will get out of debt. Then follow his plan into wealth building, it is a simple plan, and it will show you where the problems are, with clear guidance forward.

The problem is too many will say, "That just won't work in my situation." That is a lie, it will work. Go for it, Bro.

You either have a spending problem, or an income problem, that's it! It is God's will that we "prosper and be in health" I don't care what the fearful and unbelieving have to say about it. No where in scripture is poverty glorified.

Are you sure about that? Here are some scriptures for you to consider before you answer.

II Corinthians 8:1-2,9
Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Psalm 37:16
A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.

Proverbs 13:7
There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.

Proverbs 28:6
Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich.

Luke 6:24
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

James 2:5-6
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

James 5:1-3
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Revelation 2:8-10
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Psalm 140:12
I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and the right of the poor.

Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

Proverbs 17:5
Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 29:7
The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.

Zephaniah 3:8-12
Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Matthew 11:4-6
Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,


Matthew 26:10-11; Mark 14:7
When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

I allege that you are way too worked up over the content of this thread.

I agree.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Maybe that chant we have sung for decades Allelujah is demonic. Or that song in the hymnal Victory. Where you repeat the same word a hundred times... Any other great pentecostal chants you can think of?

David chanted His mercy endureth forever dozen of times in certain passages of Psalms.

Jewish customs are full of chants. Are they demonic?

I agree w/ prax on this one. Too many assumptions.

If my understanding of discussions w/ Ron are correct ... it's my understanding the Jewish language does not have an exclamation point ! ... hence repetition and rephrasing is often used to emphasize a point.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

Are you sure about that? Here are some scriptures for you to consider before you answer.

II Corinthians 8:1-2,9
Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
Psalm 37:16
A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.

Proverbs 13:7
There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.

Proverbs 28:6
Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich.

Luke 6:24
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

James 2:5-6
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

James 5:1-3
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Revelation 2:8-10
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Psalm 140:12
I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and the right of the poor.

Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

Proverbs 17:5
Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 29:7
The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.

Zephaniah 3:8-12
Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

Matthew 11:4-6
Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,


Matthew 26:10-11; Mark 14:7
When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

If you will read these verses with understanding you will see that the poverty itself is not glorified. These verses speak to the fact that God cares for the poor and so should the righteous.

My post is not to be misunderstood as a license for greed or selfishness. Rather that with wealth we have many more options for giving and investing in to the kingdom.

You can not give what you do not possess, I said nothing of consuming one's wealth on excessiveness. To the contrary, I believe it is for great good works ministry, so when "they see our good works, they will glorify our Father that is in heaven."

Our investment, along with many others can be seen at: www.coventryreserve.org


Jesus himself allowed the woman to expend her savings on Himself, saying "For you have the poor with you always....." Helping the poor the most significantly is to provide education, instruction and direction into self reliance and abundance.

The national welfare system has established a whole class of victims and dependents that hardly know how to get themselves out of bed. So only throwing money at these problems is clearly not the answer.

Thanks for you response, very good thought for further discussion.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I totally agree, CJ. God wants to bless and prosper His children, just as we want to bless and prosper our own. It's not a good witness to be broke all the time. I believe in prosperity, but I believe in a balance. I don't think He minds us having nice stuff, but we have to be Kingdom minded first. The reason for prospering His children is so they can further the work of God!! If someone is promoting wealth for only personal gain, then I think it's wrong.

The Bible does say that you should have an inheritance for your children's children. Sounds like prosperity to me!!

Absolutely Sherri, my wife is the executive director of a special needs ministry that provides care for adults with special needs that are out of high school. Guess who has given more than half a million dollars into to this wonderful ministry to our community? It is those that understand who actually owns them as well as their wealth. We have not asked for a dime, these folks understand instinctively where God is at work.

Originally Posted by crakjak

If you will read these verses with understanding you will see that the poverty itself is not glorified. These verses speak to the fact that God cares for the poor and so should the righteous.

My post is not to be misunderstood as a license for greed or selfishness. Rather that with wealth we have many more options for giving and investing in to the kingdom.

You can not give what you do not possess, I said nothing of consuming one's wealth on excessiveness. To the contrary, I believe it is for great good works ministry, so when "they see our good works, they will glorify our Father that is in heaven."

Our investment, along with many others can be seen at: www.coventryreserve.org


Jesus himself allowed the woman to expend her savings on Himself, saying "For you have the poor with you always....." Helping the poor the most significantly is to provide education, instruction and direction into self reliance and abundance.

The national welfare system has established a whole class of victims and dependents that hardly know how to get themselves out of bed. So only throwing money at these problems is clearly not the answer.

Thanks for you response, very good thought for further discussion.

Though He was rich, for our sakes He became poor. That completely, utterly flies in the face of the basic tenets of the 'prosperity gospel' most commonly found in the ranks of the charismatics.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Who ever started this idea that David danced in underwear? He danced in a linen ephod which was a priest's garment. Not drawers!

drawers? for a chest of drawers? hummm strange physique!

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Dan

Well Trouvere, I was at that service, were you? I have been a licensed minister for 36 years and have pastored for 32. I am not rebuking an Elder. If he is a true eder...he would not attack another preacher here, but he would go to him personally. He had the nerve to talk about another minister on the forum and I have every right to state my opinion. As for your opinion, you have a right to that but that does not make you right. In my opinion MB is a great evangelist and has been used mightily of God. As a matter of fact he praeched in our church a few weeks ago and we had 20 people recieve the Holy Ghost. I felt like I needed to speak up for MB. He is my friend and I did not appreciate the insinuations made in the very first post. I still believe it was of God!

You know Dan forgive me I have only been in the ministry for twenty three years so I cannot top your thirty six due to the fact that you are probably way older than I am.Maybe if you felt to rebuke an elder you could have done it in a pm.
The way you did it was classless or maybe since you wanted to be so formal
how about a phone call to his pastor? But no you wanted to exercise your big gun.I am not impressed.You did not possess a humble brotherly spirit whatsoever.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

Though He was rich, for our sakes He became poor. That completely, utterly flies in the face of the basic tenets of the 'prosperity gospel' most commonly found in the ranks of the charismatics.

I said nothing of the 'prosperity gospel' nor did I mention charismatics, nor am I one.

Yes, He became poor that we could become rich! Rich is more than wealth, yet it includes wealth. Abraham was very rich, Moses and the Israeli carried the wealth of Egypt out with them. Believe me being poor is a condition that should be healed by the gospel.

"Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Dr. Luke believed in being rich, and I agree with him. Read that last part carefully, the secret of wealth is contained in it. "...with the measure you use...."

[crakjak]

good night.