Why I Am A Futurist

[shazeep]

interesting to reflect that we are considered "branches," and grafted in...also, you reap what you sow may reflect "eating what you manifest." However, we have many refs to A tree of life, which may or may not hold with The tree of life, perhaps.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

interesting to reflect that we are considered "branches," and grafted in...also, you reap what you sow may reflect "eating what you manifest." However, we have many refs to A tree of life, which may or may not hold with The tree of life, perhaps.

Whether a real tree exists, or not, I don't know. I know it did in Genesis. But it's not a MUST thing. But I do know the bible likens people to trees everywhere.

Mar 8:24 KJV And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

And look at this:

Psa 1:3 KJV And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

We are like trees and OUR LEAVES and OUR FRUIT... are mentioned.

The leaves heal. Gifts of the Spirit.
The fruit gives life. Fruit of the Spirit.

Fruit of the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit.

Isa 61:3 KJV To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.


That is how we deal with things. The bible's pictures are ONLY what we can use for interpreting things.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...I know it did in Genesis.

you do, huh. How do you know this? Many or most Bible scholars put most of especially early Genesis firmly in the mythology category. They have a more "Christian" word for it, i forget what it is, but the point is "Oral tradition that embodies truth."

Don't get me wrong, if you feel that Eve biting a literal apple is the best reflection of that passage, then i have no problem with that. But all this "I know this" and "I know that" reminds me of nothing so much as a group of 3 year olds discussing where babies come from, wadr.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Mar 8:24 KJV And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

And look at this:

Psa 1:3 KJV And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

We are like trees and OUR LEAVES and OUR FRUIT... are mentioned.

The leaves heal. Gifts of the Spirit.
The fruit gives life. Fruit of the Spirit.

Fruit of the Spirit and gifts of the Spirit.

Isa 61:3 KJV To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.


That is how we deal with things. The bible's pictures are ONLY what we can use for interpreting things.

sorry, rough morning lol. now this part is awesome, didn't know about the "leaves" part.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

you do, huh. How do you know this? Many or most Bible scholars put most of especially early Genesis firmly in the mythology category. They have a more "Christian" word for it, i forget what it is, but the point is "Oral tradition that embodies truth."

Don't get me wrong, if you feel that Eve biting a literal apple is the best reflection of that passage, then i have no problem with that. But all this "I know this" and "I know that" reminds me of nothing so much as a group of 3 year olds discussing where babies come from, wadr.

I don't mean no one can convince me otherwise. I just believe it was real. But it doesn't matter if it wasn't. The point is the sin, not the literality of a tree. lol It very well might be non-literal. But one thing I do refuse to believe is that Adam was not a literal man.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not quite true. Here is the definition.

adjective
1.
not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying: our immortal souls.

not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting.

4. perpetual; lasting; constant:
an immortal enemy.

5.
of or relating to immortal beings or immortality.
6.
(of a laboratory-cultured cell line) capable of dividing indefinitely.

Here is the Greek for it:

aphthartos
af'-thar-tos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G5351; undecaying (in essence or continuance): -

It means something that is unable to die and unable to decay. And 1 Cor 15 says we will have IMMORTAL bodies. That means they are bodies that cannot die. They don't need anything to keep them from dying because in themselves they cannot die. It's impossible for them to get get or die, and that means no remedy is needed. If a body CANNOT die or decay, then IT DOES NOT NEED anything to keep it from getting sick. Sickness is an element that decays. Sickness cannot happen in an immortal body. You do not need anything to keep the body healthy if it's an immortal body.

It's not immortal because leaves ware there to maintain it alive. It is immortal because IT WAS CHANGED IN THE RESURRECTION. the resurrection made it immortal. Not leaves from a tree.

The leaves are not for people in heaven to stay alive and healthy THEY ARE FOR SINNERS WHO COME TO THE CHURCH. The church is heavenly Jerusalem now.



What Revelation is intended to mean is what I believe. Just like we are NOT INTENDED to believe an actual lamb with seven eyes and horns is real, but a symbol of Jesus, same with the leaves.

So if you don't believe Jesus is a real lamb with seven eyes and horns then by your own argument you do not have right to the tree of life. These are statements that yo will not respond to. When you reply you will ignore these statements like this. You do that all the time. You do not answer statements that prove you incorrect. Let me say it again, if you are saying people who do not believe the leaves are real will not have a right to the tree of life, then by the same token you have no right tot he tree since you think the LAMB IS NOT A REAL LAMB, and seven eyes are not really seven eyes.

So, let's watch and see how you will not respond to that statement.

You also don't believe 1 Cor 15 will be real when it says our bodies will be made immortal by the resurrection.

To use your faulty logic, you have just given me the grounds to say you cannot eat of the tree of life because you do not believe the bodies are really immortal. Anything that needs something to keep it alive and healed is something that is NOT IMMORTAL. Only MORTAL bodies need something to keep them from getting sick. So in reality you believe they will always be mortal, because bodies that require something to keep them from getting sick are actually mortal. Mortal means they are subject to sickness and death. Immortal means they don't need leaves to be healed because they cannot get sick to begin with.

You deny the meaning of the word immortality and incorruptible.

In Rev 22, John wrote people who are thirsty CAN COME NOW and drink of the river of life, and he said that 2000 years ago.

Rev 22:17 KJV And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

He did not see HE WILL BE ABLE TO COME IN THE FUTURE 2000 years later. He said in that day 2000 years ago to COME THEN. That is because the river is the HOLY GHOST.

That is what is written.

Joh 7:37-39 KJV In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jesus spoke of the Holy Ghost as a river of life, and that is symbolized in Revelation 22. It comes from His throne just like the Holy Ghost came from the right hand throne in Acts 2.

Act 2:33 KJV Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, [b]he hath shed [color-=red](WATER LANGUAGE)[/color] forth this, [b]which ye now see and hear.

...is symbolized by this

Rev 22:1 KJV And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

That means if the river is now and is the Holy Ghost, then the leaves are now since the sinner can come to the church, which is the heavenly Jerusalem, and get healing! the sinner can come to the church and taste and see the Lord is good and get eternal life!

But you deny the word "immortal" and you deny "incorruptible." Your belief in literal leaves that keep saints free from sickness and death is a belief that DENIES our bodies will actually be immortal. Immortal bodies cannot get sick. What makes them free of sickness is the fact that they were MADE IMMORTAL. A child would know this.

That means it's not the leaves that keep them from sickness, it's the immortality of their nature. You deny that. You deny all these verses:

1Co 15:49-55 KJV And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

You deny everything those verses say, because there is no change in the body according to your doctrine. Our bodies have the nature TO BE ABLE TO GET SICK without these (ahem) leaves. And that is like our bodies now. They can get sick. They can die. So there is no CHANGE in your doctrine. Our bodies will remain the same as they are now when Jesus comes according to you.

Your whole problem is that you cannot comprehend that the passage is SIGNIFYING -- related by SIGNS (Rev 1:1) -- and that what it REALLY MEANS is what the rest of the scriptures harmonize with. You deny the very first verse of Revelation! 1:1 says the message is SIGNIFED.

So, you deny the word "immortal". You deny the word "signified".

Your belief is as ridiculous as saying Jesus is a literal lamb with seven eyes and horns because the bible says it in Rev 5:6.

But what is worse, is that you are unable to realize that connection!

You cannot even see how you contradict your own manner of interpretation!

So, you deny IMMORTALITY.

You Deny INCORRUPTION.

You deny CHANGE in the body.

You deny SIGNIFIED in Rev 1:1.

And you contradict your own study manners with the lamb with seven eyes and horns.

Mike, If you keep teaching the Tree of Life is not literal, you will spend eternity "immortally" in hell.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

The words of Jesus....

Rev. 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God......

Rev 22:22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations....

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


The words of preterists(Mike Blume)...

Rev. 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the saints, which is in the midst of the paradise of God......

Rev 22:22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the saints, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the saints were for the healing of the nations....

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the saints, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, If you keep teaching the Tree of Life is not literal, you will spend eternity "immortally" in hell.

See? I knew it! You could not answer it and you do not believe immortality is real. You could not deal with my questions. You ignored them with out any answers. That's is how you've always handled things. Not handling them. lol

By the way, God will deal with you about judging my salvation based upon leaves, as well. Tread softly, bro. You just crossed a line.

[mfblume]

Jesus is not a literal lamb but the leaves for healing are literal leaves.

Inconsistency and confusion. God's not the author of confusion.

[shag]

Sean, with all respect brother, to choose something out of the book of revelation as not literal (lamb w 7 horns and eyes), then turn around and judge someone as going to hell for not agreeing with you choosing another thing out of the book of revelation as literal(tree of life), is ate up w hypocrisy. With what manner of judgement you judge, you will be judged, and you're trying to put everyone in hell if they don't agree with your interpretation.
That'd be about like Blume putting you in hell if you did think that Jesus is literally a sheep w 7 horns on his head. Even if he thought you were nuts, he wouldn't judge you to burning in a devils hell.