How important is "church"?

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

The "bitterness" I feel comes from the spirit of idolatry that many have toward the "church service". The spirit that has many by the throat that the church service is so all important that life and limb will be risked all for the sake of "the service!". I DO realize that life and limb are risked everyday in countries where the government and uncontrolled mobs disprove of anything Christian, but thankfully we don't live in such a country yet.
HERE, it is all about attending service so as to be more "saved" than the person who doesn't. Here in America, the church service itself is the reason for going all too often, not God.

"Tragic Events" DO occur but why do we need to increase their likelihood of happening? To have a church service in a blizzard then declare that it was "Gods Will" when tragedy happens is being a bit naive and foolish.

It is not just this particular tragedy that has me steamed. It is a laundry list of people putting far more important matters behind the "church service", all for the express purpose of "feeling more saved" and being able to boast about never having missed a service.

I know that many don't agree with you, but I do. Not that matters a whole lot to anyone, but I do. Church can be an awesome place, but it can also be a ego boost and I have see that too often!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Well, we went to the funeral this past Monday morning. An insane amount of people showed up! She was a school teacher, so there were all her co-workers as well as dozens of students and their parents. All told, it was a "good" funeral.

And I did not sense of shred of guilt from any of the regular church members over having not canceled service that morning due to the weather.....

I don't understand why they should feel guilty??? Church members don't cancel services.

[RevBuddy]

RandyWayne:

Now your logic is just plain silly. No amount of stretching the facts can change that. Sorry, you're about as far out in left field as you can get...makes no sense Biblically or logically...

There's something under the surface here that has nothing to do with the incident you have related. And it is a bitterness that has its source in deeper issues than you've revealed here. Blaming a church or its leaders for someone's death enroute to a church services borders on the asinine.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

RandyWayne:

Now your logic is just plain silly. No amount of stretching the facts can change that. Sorry, you're about as far out in left field as you can get...makes no sense Biblically or logically...

There's something under the surface here that has nothing to do with the incident you have related. And it is a bitterness that has its source in deeper issues than you've revealed here. Blaming a church or its leaders for someone's death enroute to a church services borders on the asinine.

I didn't blame them directly for her death, so much as blame the mindset that "when the doors are open, you need to be there!" attitude prevalent among so many -even when it is not safe to do so. All for the purpose of control/kingdom building/feeling more saved/anything else.
In my first post I also compared another example of a woman who's husband was only home about a week a month spending half those days at church because "her church family was just as important!".

And if you sense something else under the surface, you are correct. I spent all my teenage years in a UC church with this very attitude. The CHURCH (not the body of Christ, but the group of local people with the pastor as the head) were all-important. Before friends, family, spouses, and children.

And I have to mention again, this is an AoG church lest people think I am UPC bashing.....

[ChTatum]

What we think is irrelevant.

Scripture requires that we not forsake the assembling of ourslevs, and even more so as the day approaches.

This is scripture. I cannot and will not argue with scripture.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

What we think is irrelevant.

Scripture requires that we not forsake the assembling of ourslevs, and even more so as the day approaches.

This is scripture. I cannot and will not argue with scripture.

So how much assembling? 1, 2, 3, 7, or more times a week?
Have vacation plans but have to now cancel now because the pastor just announced special services on those days? (Yes, that has happened more then once.)
Family coming that you only see once a year or less but they will be over on a weekend and have to spend all day Sunday at church?

[RevBuddy]

RandyWayne:

I appreciate the tone of your responses, but you've got to stop fixating on your past experience and make sound judgments in light of His Word and Truth. I make no excuses for church leaders who abuse both their power and their saints. But having said that, you can't associate in any way a church service schedule with a random tragic event. It's just an unfair comparison for all involved, and really, diminishes the memory of the lost loved one.

I pray you can exorcise whatever demons continue to color your judgment. You're in my prayers, brother.

[commonsense]

It's back to that commonsense thing again. I live in the north...we get snow and ice that cause bad roads. I've left the house for service and after sliding on slick surfaces turned around and gone home. ( I've done the same for work)

I do not think we should risk life and limb. A few years ago a young couple in our fair city were in a bad accident on the way to Sun eve service and both injured. He died about 6 weeks later. IMO the roads were treacherous and service could have been canceled. But they were taught there were not any reasons to ever miss.

I know of a wonderful lady in a northern state that did her best to attend church. Her husband was unsaved. She lived out of town and called the pastor once to say she would not be there due to the weather and was chastised!!!
On another occasion she was quite ill and once again decided not to attend and was given the third degree for not going to church. And we wonder why her husband was not drawn to be part of this..........

Do we attend due to fear and guilt? It should be out of love and we can love God and still use commonsense.

Originally Posted by He's My Friend

[/B]


Randy Wayne:


I am very sorry for the loss of a dear person. (truly)

I am in no way coming against you or your feelings, but there is a portion of your response that stuck with me.

Every day is uncertain, (we all know that), and people young and old, good and bad, saved and unsaved, leave this life.

Your mention of the members not feeling guilt, took me back many years ago.

I was 11/12 yrs old, yet I recall the time well.

The year was 1972, and you never heard anything about drinking and driving, or at least it was not mentioned as it is today.

We lived in a small town of 2,000 people, and our county was "dry".

My grandfather was a nice man.
He was always good to his family.

When his children (8 of them) were still at home, the girls sang with grandmother.

They received calls from every church in the area to come and sing.

My grandfather gladly took them, although he was not saved.

He sat outside of the churches, while his family was inside singing.

Later on in life after his children all married, and had families of their own, life changed for grandfather.

Grandfather left his home one afternoon, and went to the next county that was wet.

He drank "some" before starting home.

He arrived in our hometown, in the wee hours of the morning.

He was in a "VolksWagon Bug", going down a little deadend street, barely going over 20 miles per hour.

The streets were empty, (thank the Lord).

Grandfather attempted to make a turn, but his senses were not up to par, and he hit a telephone pole.

The pole snapped, and splintered in the middle.

The sheriff happened by, and he took gf to the local jail.

The sheriff was a kind man, and he knew everyone in the county.

After he arrived at the jail with gf, he called the family.

Well, what the sheriff did not know, grandfather was hurt internally.

Later when this was discovered, grandfather was taken to the local hospital.

Grandfather lived for about a week.

He passed away one Sunday morning.

My grandfather never lived for God.
He never made any type of confession of faith, he never repented, he never
received water bapt, and he never recv'd the Holy Ghost.

That afternoon people kept selling alcohol to my grandfather.
He purchased it, and he drank it, because he wanted to.

The one that sold all of that to him, felt no guilt either, it was just another sale.


I know this hurts you all, that a dear one is gone, but would she want you to feel this way ?

Would she want you to feel so harsh at the church fellowship, for a decision that she made that morning to go to church?


I hope you can feel in my post that I am not trying to hurt you, but we all have the right to make decisions, and she made hers that morning.

Had she not gone to church, she may have chosen to go out for breakfast, or to the store, and possibly the same accident would have happened.

This is one of those things that we must give to God, and ask him to keep our
spirits right.

I pray for you to find peace in this loss.

This is the kindest sweetest post....and sis you bring such truth....I do understand how randy feels, but your points are well made and taken!

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

My pastor has always told us to use our own judgment in terms of the weather. He rarely cancels service but understands if we choose to stay home due to icy roads.

This is my thinking also. We wouldn't cancel a service either unless we just couldn't get to church. Church can be open for people that live close enough to make it without putting themselves in danger. Why not use common sense? If the rode is iced over and dangerous to drive, stay at home and have church.