How many churches are willing to "pay out" for their help?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

People on church payrolls include:

Pastors
Assistant Pastors
Youth Pastors
Ministers of Music
Church Administrators
Janitors
Child Care workers
Counselors
Media Personnel

How about the musicians, Sunday School teachers? Youth workers? Outreach people etc etc etc?

Originally Posted by Chan

Ah, yes, people whom God has gifted with certain abilitites will only have a mediocre gift unless they get paid for using their gift! NOT!

And, yet, Paul also made tents for a living.

I agree with you, Chan. So anyone who isn't paid would be considered mediocre and couldn't match the talents of one who was paid for doing the same job. Sure......

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think it's just fine to ask folks to volunteer their gifts and talents to the church, especially if the church is small and can't afford to pay fulltime employees. However, the church can't expect compliance or fulltime effort....

I know quite a few pastors who work outside the home, to supplement small incomes from small churches. Would the same logic apply? If a church can't afford to pay a pastor, say, $50,000.00/year, are they too small for a pastor????

Volunteers are necessary, unless the church is very large with equally large financial resources. Volunteers are needed for teaching classes, greeting visitors, taking up offerings, singing in the choir, playing the organ on Sunday mornings, etc. etc. etc. There's no reason to pay for those positions. Unless the position is a fulltime position, in lieu of other employment (at the request of the church), then I see no reason for a salary, or at least not a large one.

I think folks should give of their time and talents to the church the same way the give their financial support. The way I see it, God blessed me with some gifts, I make money off those talents by teaching music lessons, etc., and I return His favor by giving back to Him for free. The only way I would accept a salary from our church is if they asked me to take on a position that would significantly take away from my ability to take care of other priorities, and I would need it in order to fill the position.

Salaries are fair, but they aren't necessary all the time, nor should they be demanded or expected, nor should a person withhold their gifts and talents from the church merely to gain a salary.

I do agree that some churches don't treat their members and volunteers very well, and those who don't, and especially those who have the capacity to do so and don't should be ashamed of themselves.

Well balanced and thought out post! The Scripture, freely have you received; freely give, comes to mind as well as the one about the love of money. If money is our basis for our service in the Lord, then we've lost our focus.

And to think I resigned a decent paying secular position at one time and took on work at a small church with not a dime paid to me for the several months I was there when I could have demanded a salary.....what was I thinking?! And you know what, I'd do it again were I to have the opportunity to go back in time and relive that occassion.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Also...it disturbs me just a bit that so many people expect to be monetarily compensated for every little thing they do. For goodness' sake, doesn't anyone just give to God anymore?

I suppose sacrificial giving and living is a thing of the past.

It's sad to me that people expect to be paid for doing what they should be doing any way. God gives us the talent we have in the first place.

[ManOfWord]

Both churches I have had the privilege to pastor, I worked a full time job to be able to afford to pastor them in the beginning. If I do my job well, others do their jobs well, as unto to the Lord, the church should grow allowing myself and others to get paid. Currently, the only full time employee is myself. After that, we pay, my secretary, the treasurer, janitor, music director, children's church director, Youth pastors (2). All these others are part time. As we grow, we will add some full time.

Any entrepreneur knows that you initially spend an inordinate amount of time initially to be able to get paid eventually.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

If a church needs to pay a counselor for their services, that's a church I don't think I'd like to be part of. Sounds like the church has a lot of problems to need a paid counselor.

Sister, all churches has problems, even if you have a counselor or no counselor, at least with the counselor you know about them.

Reminds me of a pastor who ran about 200 people, when he started small groups he was heard to reply, I didn't know that we had that many problems.

The problems will always be in a church, the truth is do you want to know about them and design a God honoring solution.

[Felicity]

5 Full time

2 Part time

Dozens of volunteers who give willingly of their time, resources, talents and ability. Without them the church couldn't functiono - simple as that. And thank God for them too!

Even churches that are large with lots of staff - full time and part time - must have volunteer help.

[Rhoni]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherri
Our Administrative Pastor happens to have his masters in Counseling, and is also a part of the AACC (Christian network). It's great, because we send almost all of the counseling to him, and we do very little of it ourselves. My hubby doesn't have the personality to counsel; he tends to tell people what to do and actually expects them to follow through. LOL! He's not good at just sitting and listening for hours.

Sherri,

It is great that you have a professional counselor on staff. I have belonged to AACC for the past ten years and have gotten wonderful literature from them.

I think it depends on where you live. Here in Texas they have quite a few paid counsleors on staff. I know POA has one too. The truth is that when you have a license you can bill insurance companies so the overhead for the church is very minimal if anything at all. I can give a receipt and they can turn it in to their insurance company. The only liability for the church is in the event of indigent saints who have no insurance and if the Pastor wants you to counsel them then they pay what would be an insurance deductible of $20.00. Licensed Counselors carry their own malpractice insurance so basically all the churches provide is an office. IT is a service to the church for Christian Counsleors for those Pastors who don't have the time or ability to do counseling, as well as an outreach for the community.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sherri,

It is great that you have a professional counselor on staff. I have belonged to AACC for the past ten years and have gotten wonderful literature from them.

I think it depends on where you live. Here in Texas they have quite a few paid counsleors on staff. I know POA has one too. The truth is that when you have a license you can bill insurance companies so the overhead for the church is very minimal if anything at all. I can give a receipt and they can turn it in to their insurance company. The only liability for the church is in the event of indigent saints who have no insurance and if the Pastor wants you to counsel them then they pay what would be an insurance deductible of $20.00. Licensed Counselors carry their own malpractice insurance so basically all the churches provide is an office. IT is a service to the church for Christian Counsleors for those Pastors who don't have the time or ability to do counseling, as well as an outreach for the community.

Blessings, Rhoni

Our Counselor doesn't get paid by the people or insurance or anything. His counseling is all free, because he gets a salary from the church. We do this as a ministry to people in the church.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by LaGirl

That is great you have someone else to help in the counseling. If he were not there, would yall hire a Counselor?

Not sure....now that we've had one, it would be hard to go back to doing without one!!