A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by CC1

the old paths,

As a child growing up in a conservative UPC church in the 60's and early 70's our pastor made us throw away any dice that game with board games and make spinners to take their place.

This was not uncommon. It was the same logic that says playing Uno is ok but not any card games with regular playing cards. The game I mentioned, Monopoly, was just incidental. My point was the banning of the dice. We had to make spinners for Monopoly and a host of other board games ( we played lots of board games because it got very cold in the winter in Alaska and being UPC we had no TV - LOL!!!)

I believe the fear was that the dice would feel so good in your hand playing that innocent board game that it was that slippery slope to gambling with dice. Same logic that says if you play gin rummy or war with regular playing cards you are on the slippery slope to playing in poker tournaments in Vegas.

You can doubt all this you want. I lived it. First hand. No second hand story here.

Thank you for enlightening me - first time I heard of it and I believe you.

My church would be considered ultra-con by some, but since I was baptized in 10/88 and got the Holy Ghost in 05/89, I have not heard in my church of not being able to play a board game that uses dice.

My own personal opinion is that Proverbs mentions the lot causing contentions to cease. Now if dice was a weakness to one of my brothers who used to be addicted to playing craps and/or gambling, then I should not lay a stumblingblock before him - the bible is quite clear on that one.

I believe it is safer to obey those that have the rule over you than to knowingly disobey.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

That's outrageous.

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by CC1

True story - Years ago I was speaking to a Dean at one of the UPC Bible Colleges. He had just gotten back from a meeting for Deans of all of the UPC Bible Colleges.

One of the Deans told this story to the other Deans at the meeting. A wonderful godly young woman who had either been homeschooled or church schooled was a member of the freshman class of this Dean's Bibile School.

She came back from Thanksgiving break distraught and not herself. This continued for days with her looking like her best friend had died and that she was about to have a nervous breakdown.

Finally she asked to counsel with this dean. He agreed and was shocked when she confided in him that she was pregnant. He was shocked because she was the last person in the world he expected to hear this from. He ask her to explain what had happened.

She proceeded to tell him about going home for Thanksgiving and being asked out on a date by some guy. She continued the story until it ended with the boy french kissing her. The Dean was confused and asked some probing questions only to find out that was all that happened.

This woman was so sheltered that at the age of 18 or 19 she thought you could get pregmant from kissing!!!

Now obviously even for back then (20+ years ago) she was very much the exception to the rule but it is possible for kids to grow up so sheltered it hurts them more than helps them.

I know that this girls parents had all of the best intentions in sheltering her but they had done her a great disservice by not preparing her for life.

Reminds me of the movie Carrie.. when her "little friend" comes to visit.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

In the context it is talking about sex.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

I wonder what some modern idols are in today's age and I wonder if "time" is one of the things that gentiles/people who are lost now sacrifice unto their modern idols/devils?

But the people of God CANNOT have fellowship with devils and CANNOT drink the cup of devils and CANNOT be partakers of the table of devils.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

That which is HIGHLY ESTEEMED among men is ABOMINATION in the sight of God.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Don't covet and love the things of this world and don't covet the things that the man of God in your life has preached against. Otherwise you might, like 2 Peter 2 describes, become like the false teachers among the Apostolics who bring in disunity by speaking evil of the way of truth, and through "coveteousness" - desiring things that you do not have and SHOULD NOT HAVE - and feigned words make merchandise of people. Who walk after the flesh and are not interested in crucifying their flesh with the affections and lusts thereof who despise leadership and are not afraid to speak evil of dignities and do not want to be lead by others but just want to do their own thing and whatsoever is right in their own eyes.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God's people are NOT to be conformed to this world; if the world wants to get saved them let them conform to the word of God.

You can still be separate from the world and its idols and still try to love them - PEOPLE - and try to win them...

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Amen!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I wonder if anyone who became addicted to gambling ever started out wanting to become addicted to gambling? The simple fact remains that some get addicted to gambling.

Now your strengths and weaknesses may not be my strengths and weaknesses, but we are NOT to put a stumbling block before another saint.

Also we are not to be under the power of any.

1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

If you have a problem with gambling, and can't play cards because of it, then we don't play cards when you come to my house to visit. It's that simple. I won't get upset at you over not being able to play poker with me, and you don't get upset with me for being able to play poker.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by CC1

True story - Years ago I was speaking to a Dean at one of the UPC Bible Colleges. He had just gotten back from a meeting for Deans of all of the UPC Bible Colleges.

One of the Deans told this story to the other Deans at the meeting. A wonderful godly young woman who had either been homeschooled or church schooled was a member of the freshman class of this Dean's Bibile School.

She came back from Thanksgiving break distraught and not herself. This continued for days with her looking like her best friend had died and that she was about to have a nervous breakdown.

Finally she asked to counsel with this dean. He agreed and was shocked when she confided in him that she was pregnant. He was shocked because she was the last person in the world he expected to hear this from. He ask her to explain what had happened.

She proceeded to tell him about going home for Thanksgiving and being asked out on a date by some guy. She continued the story until it ended with the boy french kissing her. The Dean was confused and asked some probing questions only to find out that was all that happened.

This woman was so sheltered that at the age of 18 or 19 she thought you could get pregmant from kissing!!!

Now obviously even for back then (20+ years ago) she was very much the exception to the rule but it is possible for kids to grow up so sheltered it hurts them more than helps them.

I know that this girls parents had all of the best intentions in sheltering her but they had done her a great disservice by not preparing her for life.

This sounds pretty extreme to me. My guess is that this sort of thing is very, very rare.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Thank you for enlightening me - first time I heard of it and I believe you.

My church would be considered ultra-con by some, but since I was baptized in 10/88 and got the Holy Ghost in 05/89, I have not heard in my church of not being able to play a board game that uses dice.

My own personal opinion is that Proverbs mentions the lot causing contentions to cease. Now if dice was a weakness to one of my brothers who used to be addicted to playing craps and/or gambling, then I should not lay a stumblingblock before him - the bible is quite clear on that one.

I believe it is safer to obey those that have the rule over you than to knowingly disobey.

Growing up, whenever a parent would not have a satisfactory answer for making me do something they would always say "because I said so".

This statement seems to be the equivalent of that when it comes to church leadersship.
The pastor can make any rule he wants and regardless of whether it is rooted in the Word, in the end he can invoke the phrase "obey those that have the rule over you" or you'll be in a state of "rebellion".
This negates any possibility of questioning if such a "catch all" can make every other commandment irrelevant.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Growing up, whenever a parent would not have a satisfactory answer for making me do something they would always say "because I said so".

This statement seems to be the equivalent of that when it comes to church leadersship.
The pastor can make any rule he wants and regardless of whether it is rooted in the Word, in the end he can invoke the phrase "obey those that have the rule over you" or you'll be in a state of "rebellion".
This negates any possibility of questioning if such a "catch all" can make every other commandment irrelevant.

I am in total agreement that there should be a reason and so is Brother Booker in his book - What A Difference a Line Can Make. There must be a purpose/reason for the rule, otherwise why create it?

My pastor has no problem with anyone asking him questions.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I am in total agreement that there should be a reason and so is Brother Booker in his book - What A Difference a Line Can Make. There must be a purpose/reason for the rule, otherwise why create it?

My pastor has no problem with anyone asking him questions.

My old one (before the move) didn't either. In fact, he invited questions. He was a man I respected even on things we disagreed with.