Usually theology starts out with the premise of proving the existence of God. This is many times for the Atheist or the Agnostic for if there is no God then why would we believe in a Word of God. If we cannot prove one portion is the Wrod of God we then might as well discount the whole.
This is called systematic theology. Once the overwhelming evidence for God is Proven then we go to the infallibility of the Word of God.
When we turn to this method of proving the veracity of Gods word various forms are used to prove this.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
God is a reasonable God and we anso can use reason to verify our faith. Our faith is founded on substance and evidence.
Number one reason we believe it is is because it claims to be the Word of God.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Jesus expressed that the Word of God was scriptures and gave veracity that the Old Testament was the Word of God.
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Many don't want to believe that it is no matter how much evidence is provided because then they will have to agree that there is a God and if he made the rules then he can bring judgment for disobedience.
More later
Pastor DT Salaz
But this completely eliminates from your reasoning those who believe there is a God and don't believe the Bible is infallible.
Can you use the Bible to prove the Bible is infallible?
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
Usually theology starts out with the premise of proving the existence of God. This is many times for the Atheist or the Agnostic for if there is no God then why would we believe in a Word of God. If we cannot prove one portion is the Wrod of God we then might as well discount the whole.
This is called systematic theology. Once the overwhelming evidence for God is Proven then we go to the infallibility of the Word of God.
When we turn to this method of proving the veracity of Gods word various forms are used to prove this.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
God is a reasonable God and we anso can use reason to verify our faith. Our faith is founded on substance and evidence.
Number one reason we believe it is is because it claims to be the Word of God.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Jesus expressed that the Word of God was scriptures and gave veracity that the Old Testament was the Word of God.
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Many don't want to believe that it is no matter how much evidence is provided because then they will have to agree that there is a God and if he made the rules then he can bring judgment for disobedience.
More later
Pastor DT Salaz
Doesn't apply to me. FYI.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I think whether the Bible is actually true is very relevant to the subject. If it's not true, it's not God's word. (IMO.) (And yes, I know, most everyone here believes it absolutely is true, and can always find a way to make everything it says true. )
But technically, you're right. The subject is proving that it is God's word. If it's not possible to do that (as some here, maybe most, would agree), I can think of two possible reasons for this:
1. God didn't want it to be possible to prove.
2. It isn't His word.
If you can think of another reason, let's hear it. Otherwise, I guess you guys would vote #1.
I already quoted Jesus where He said anyone who wants to know it is true must try it just exactly the way it says to try it. Real, doubting of nothing. It's all there.
Anyone who doubts it as much as is related in some posts here will never be able to know, for Jesus said we must doubt nothing. Some people are so far away from being able to "doubt not" that God could do nothing for them. It can be a bad, bad habit to ever break.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I already quoted Jesus where He said anyone who wants to know it is true must try it just exactly the way it says to try it. Real, doubting of nothing. It's all there.
Anyone who doubts it as much as is related in some posts here will never be able to know, for Jesus said we must doubt nothing. Some people are so far away from being able to "doubt not" that God could do nothing for them. It can be a bad, bad habit to ever break.
Do you have faith? Without a tiny bit of doubt? Can you do "greater works than these"? Can you move mountains?
No. You probably cannot. You and every single human on the face of the earth have at least a tiny bit of doubt. Apparently. Otherwise, there'd be such miracles that nobody could deny them. Some news outlets might be so evil and satanic that they wouldn't show them, but not every outlet would do that. The word would get out that amputees are growing new arms and legs. Hospitals are being emptied. (Except for the few that God wants to be sick, I guess.) The dead are being raised!
Ah, but that's not how God works, sadly. No, He doesn't want the world at large to have undeniable proof that He is at work in the world, that His "word" is true. He would rather reward the very few that decide to believe it without proof. More satisfying that way.
Is that about right? Well, it says right there in the Bible, Jesus doesn't want to save some people. So, I guess I'm not too far off.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It does? Surely you wouldn't make such a claim if you can't back it up.
Chapter and verse please?
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
It does? Surely you wouldn't make such a claim if you can't back it up.
Chapter and verse please?
Well, I was thinking of 2 Tim 3:16, but that doesn't quite cut it. Doesn't say it's perfect. Just inspired and profitable. So, hmmm. Maybe the Bible isn't perfect after all!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you have faith? Without a tiny bit of doubt? Can you do "greater works than these"? Can you move mountains?
I already told you of a mountain I moved in my financial struggle. I tried what the bible said, and doubted nothing, and it worked!
Quote:
No. You probably cannot. You and every single human on the face of the earth have at least a tiny bit of doubt.
No one gets prayers answered who doubts the least bit. Only when I doubted nothing I got prayers answered and wonders occurred.
See? Your very overall concept saying EVERYONE HAS DOUBT is totally defeating your ability to see the proof.
Quote:
Apparently. Otherwise, there'd be such miracles that nobody could deny them.
I have seen miracles I could not deny and neither could the people who saw them with me.
It's every man for himself in the realm of faith. YOU have to believe FOR YOURSELF. We cannot look at anyone else's experiences and claim there is no faith. I accepted that and I believed God for myself, and I saw many miracles through the years.
Quote:
Some news outlets might be so evil and satanic that they wouldn't show them, but not every outlet would do that. The word would get out that amputees are growing new arms and legs. Hospitals are being emptied. (Except for the few that God wants to be sick, I guess.) The dead are being raised!
Ah, but that's not how God works, sadly.
You are doing it again. Your concept is so full of doubt.
Quote:
No, He doesn't want the world at large to have undeniable proof that He is at work in the world, that His "word" is true. He would rather reward the very few that decide to believe it without proof. More satisfying that way.
More doubt-filled concepts.
Quote:
Is that about right? Well, it says right there in the Bible, Jesus doesn't want to save some people. So, I guess I'm not too far off.
No that is not right. I am no Calvinist who believes Jesus does not want to save some people.
Tim, our words are powerful in both directions. One can speak oneself into deep, deep unbelief, or speak oneself into faith. Watch what we say. Let us be careful. One can be so full of unbelief that everything one sees is filtered through it. I believe that is the idea Jesus tried to relate when he said the light of the body is the eye. The way we perceive things is what He meant. Our perception can be so diseased spiritually, like a physical eye that is diseased, or evil. And everything such a person sees will be distorted. And Jesus said that if the distortion we see is considered reality in our hearts, how dark is that darkness! If the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Fight the unbelief. We can do it!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Well, I was thinking of 2 Tim 3:16, but that doesn't quite cut it. Doesn't say it's perfect. Just inspired and profitable. So, hmmm. Maybe the Bible isn't perfect after all!
I make no arguments about the Scripture spoken of in this verse being inspired and profitable (that'd be the Old Testament...). But it never makes the claim that it's infallible. (unless someone can find a verse I haven't found)
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
I already told you of a mountain I moved in my financial struggle. I tried what the bible said, and doubted nothing, and it worked!
No one gets prayers answered who doubts the least bit. Only when I doubted nothing I got prayers answered and wonders occurred.
See? Your very overall concept saying EVERYONE HAS DOUBT is totally defeating your ability to see the proof.
I have seen miracles I could not deny and neither could the people who saw them with me.
It's every man for himself in the realm of faith. YOU have to believe FOR YOURSELF. We cannot look at anyone else's experiences and claim there is no faith. I accepted that and I believed God for myself, and I saw many miracles through the years.
You are doing it again. Your concept is so full of doubt.
More doubt-filled concepts.
No that is not right. I am no Calvinist who believes Jesus does not want to save some people.
Tim, our words are powerful in both directions. One can speak oneself into deep, deep unbelief, or speak oneself into faith. Watch what we say. Let us be careful. One can be so full of unbelief that everything one sees is filtered through it. I believe that is the idea Jesus tried to relate when he said the light of the body is the eye. The way we perceive things is what He meant. Our perception can be so diseased spiritually, like a physical eye that is diseased, or evil. And everything such a person sees will be distorted. And Jesus said that if the distortion we see is considered reality in our hearts, how dark is that darkness! If the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Fight the unbelief. We can do it!
So you can empty hospitals? Have you done that?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
)
I am no Calvinist who believes Jesus does not want to save some people.
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